The Epic Mistake About Manufacturing that's Cost Americans Millions of Jobs

a reply to: Azureblue


I don't believe in 'NWO agendas', this was about making money at the expense of the American economy and then using bad data to try and prove what was happening wasn't actually happening.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Its a problem of people trying to assess value with something they know nothing about.

Its not about cash value, its about processing capacity. That is the true value indicator (and even that would skew market values without first devaluing the processing cycle itself first using an inflationary model)

That's wholly accurate, they used their basic costing model on a sector that continually has exponentially accelerating performance.

I'm in Detroit I remember when China was let into the world trade organization. I watched the jobs leave and I know where they went. America couldn't compete with 3rd world slave labor wage. I watched it all unfold. My favorite fishing rod was once made in America until they went to China. Levi's blue jeans were once made in America. I remember when they left too. I worked in tool and die. I watched dies start showing up with Chinese writing all over the crates. I asked my boss what is this? He said China makes them for half the price. They're junk but it's cheaper to have them made there and fix them here. I saw entire industrial complexes disappear over night. I'm not talking about the burned out factories from the inner city. The entire Metro Metro area was full of manufacturing. By 2005 it turned into a ghost town around here. The freeways that were once bumper to bumper at 5pm were empty. It started under Clinton and it accelerated under Bush. On top of people losing their jobs gas hit $5 a gallon. People started walking away from the mortgages and housing prices collapsed and even more people walked away. There's a lot more to it but I don't feel like typing an essay.

a reply to: wantsome

it's not because of how cheap the labor is because that's relative
here's an analogy

You have 2 stores, they carry the similar items. You can buy jeans at store 1 for $400 and you can buy jeans at store 2 for $75. which store is more likely to attract more business??? Obviously it's store 2.

How does this relate?

Well, when the world market is shopping around deciding where to manufacture it's products if it decides it's going to invest in the US well their dollar is going to be able to purchase less in this country because of the strength and demand of the dollar. Meanwhile China's currency has been devalued so their dollar is in less demand meaning it's more affordable to the world market.

So where does the world market spend it's money? At the store with $75 jeans.

It's really that simple.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: wantsome

it's not because of how cheap the labor is because that's relative
here's an analogy

You have 2 stores, they carry the similar items. You can buy jeans at store 1 for $400 and you can buy jeans at store 2 for $75. which store is more likely to attract more business??? Obviously it's store 2.

How does this relate?

Well, when the world market is shopping around deciding where to manufacture it's products if it decides it's going to invest in the US well their dollar is going to be able to purchase less in this country because of the strength and demand of the dollar. Meanwhile China's currency has been devalued so their dollar is in less demand meaning it's more affordable to the world market.

So where does the world market spend it's money? At the store with $75 jeans.

It's really that simple.

My family came to Detroit in the 1930's from Kentucky.

My grandmother came here from Kentucky before WW2. She was born on tobacco farm in Kentucky on a kitchen table in a dirt floor shack. She had a 3rd grade education. She worked in a muntiontions factory during WW2. She made parts for the bombs dropped on Japan. She retired from Crystler automotive in 1986. She had half a million dollars in the bank and 3 homes.

My dad worked at General Motors he now has 20 years in at Ford Mo Co.

My other grandmother retired from Holly Carburetor.

My grandfather retired from Borg Warner. He also came from Kentucky and had an 8th grade education. He retired with more money then I'll ever make.

I worked in manufacturing for 10 years. I know manufacturing quite well. What do you know about it?

I watched the jobs leave and I know where they went.

a reply to: wantsome

Great story

originally posted by: wantsome
I watched the jobs leave and I know where they went.

Your grandparents were able to manufacturer without an education because the assembly line removed the need for skill from the manufacturing process. The products made in the US these days, have shifted back towards artisianal products that require an actual education rather than being a cog in a machine. There's still some assembly line production, but those aren't the jobs we're adding to the economy.

originally posted by: toysforadults
You have 2 stores, they carry the similar items. You can buy jeans at store 1 for $400 and you can buy jeans at store 2 for $75. which store is more likely to attract more business??? Obviously it's store 2.

Maybe for people who shop solely on margin. If the $75 jeans are of poor construction and fit while the $400 ones last much longer than the quality-conscious shopper will buy the more expensive ones.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

that's true however most businesses are going to look for a deal where their money get's the most bang for it's buck

right now you get more bang for your buck in China and Mexico (although that may be changing) than the US so the majority of manufacturers will go to those places

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: wantsome
I watched the jobs leave and I know where they went.

Your grandparents were able to manufacturer without an education because the assembly line removed the need for skill from the manufacturing process. The products made in the US these days, have shifted back towards artisianal products that require an actual education rather than being a cog in a machine. There's still some assembly line production, but those aren't the jobs we're adding to the economy.

that's not true at all manufacturing plants require high skill and most machine operator, mechanic and machinist jobs are apprenticed for years and require somewhat high level math

the reason why they didn't require an education is because they weren't being sold a false bill of goods in an economy that had a very high demand for workers

a reply to: wantsome

I too am very familiar with Detroit. Dad worked for Great Lakes (VP of Engineering for many years).

Why do you think all those Chinese imports even made it off the docks in Detroit? Why did the Teamsters even haul them, and why did all the UAW workers put them in their milling machines? Why did all the Japanese steel make it off the boats? How could it even move? Don't be fooled, there were a whole lot of folks complicit with the fall of Detroit, a once great manufacturing center of the US.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

credit for that perspective

originally posted by: toysforadults
that's not true at all manufacturing plants require high skill and most machine operator, mechanic and machinist jobs are apprenticed for years and require somewhat high level math

the reason why they didn't require an education is because they weren't being sold a false bill of goods in an economy that had a very high demand for workers

Skilled jobs take years to decades to learn.

I work for a large manufacturer in the US, I've toured a lot of our factories. The most skilled factory floor jobs take a full day to learn. The mechanics take between a week and two weeks per product. They mechanics should only take a day, but the classes move at an extremely slow pace (part of my job involves having to sit through the technician training for any product I work on... it is incredibly dull). Those are not skilled positions.

a reply to: Aazadan

you are not going to be running flexo 9 color printing jobs after a day of training

you won't be running 3 axis CNC jobs after 1 day of training

you won't be running extrusion jobs after 1 day of training

you won't be making parts as a machinist after 1 day

you won't be repairing machines after 1 day of training

this is complete nonsense

originally posted by: toysforadults
you won't be running 3 axis CNC jobs after 1 day of training

G-Code takes a day (that's what it took me at least), anything else is basic knowledge one should already have from prior education.

a reply to: Aazadan

C'mon, man...skilled labor is not a slam dunk. It takes years to learn those trades. You might have learned to run a CNC machine, for one product, in a day, but to be given a complex design, point blank, and have an order for it in two days...isn't so easy!!

All these younger generation types dismiss skilled labor...because they lived in Mom's basement playing video games and going to school to get their worthless, but vaunted, MBA. They think it's beneath them, with their degrees, so they go flip burgers at Burger Shack instead...hoping to be a manager one day.

Skilled labor is every bit as valuable as management (and I would argue even more so). A dollar store "manager" or a "Fries with that?" kid with a shingle from 'Diplomas-R-Us'...not so much.

(think about it).

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

No, they, or at least I dismiss labor that isn't actually skilled. If a substantial time investment isn't involved in learning it, it is not skilled labor. If people who can perform the job can easily be found, it is not exclusive enough to be considered skilled. There is a whole section in phone books for plumbers, they are not a scarce commodity, therefore they are not skilled labor.

a reply to: toysforadults

Agreed, but just to be clear...

Skilled trade does not require unions. Those days are gone, long gone. Unions badly damaged the workforce in this country. They created an artificial world which was not sustainable. Furthermore, they are replete with corruption...ALL of them!

The American worker needs to prevail on his own terms. They don't need unions anymore. Unions are attractive because they drive up wages, and who wouldn't want that, right? ...until there are no jobs. ZERO.

When we look for problems about jobs going off-shore, despite what any economists might say, we can never let the unions get far from the discussion. They have crippled the American workforce, and the saddest part is, the workers themselves never benefited (at least in recent decades). They stole the money from their workforce for things like organized crime. It's shamefull, and I've seen it first hand...FIRST HAND!! (SERIOUSLY) (my sister worked at the Red Fox restaurant in Birmingham where Jimmy Hoffa was kidnapped...she waited on his table the very night he was kidnapped!!!!!).

I've seen mobsters, hardcore guys, come into neighborhoods and go to someone's house. I've seen people "disappear"...I've actually seen it! In Detroit, or on the outskirts of Detroit, in the wealthier suburbs. I've seen it. Real life.

I grew up in Wyoming as a result. Perhaps I'm a cowboy now, raising cows, but those days are not something you forget. You don't forget your little friend telling you about how his "daddy" got "taken" and may not be back for a while. You just don't forget that stuff!!!

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: toysforadults
you won't be running 3 axis CNC jobs after 1 day of training

G-Code takes a day (that's what it took me at least), anything else is basic knowledge one should already have from prior education.

I can not trust a single thing you say, ever... I have worked on CNC machines you didn't learn G-code and how to run all the machines in day it's complete nonsense what you're saying

Same people who own the deepstate