Judge Andrew Napolitano: Trump and the attorney-client privilege

After reading the article, which is the subject of this OP, I must say that I am feeling a fair bit of despair - others, no doubt, will be filled with a certain elation because this ostensibly deals with perils facing Donald Trump.

My concern stems mainly from, in what now seems to be the undisputed fact that, in a very systematic way the many tentacles of the so-called "Deep State" have managed to eavesdrop with impunity on Candidate Trump, President-elect Trump and now President of the United States Trump...all in the very naked pursuit of crimes which they might discover and thus use against him to end his Presidency.

Trump supporters will, and should be, outraged no matter the outcome. Trump haters will rejoice if and when the witch hunt finally ends in an indictment or impeachment (if it does, it will likely have absolutely nothing to do with the red herring Russian Collusion that his enemies used to justify the dismantlement of his Civil Rights).

The evidence seems to strongly suggest that the Obama Adminsitration, the DOJ, the FBI, the Court System and others combined and conspired to arrange things so that "Law Enforcement" could eavesdrop on the phones calls, emails and other communications of a large number of the people surrounding Donald Trump (I will not be shocked if I someday learn that the "wiretapping" included the President himself under some pretext), so that they could get direct access to highly sensitive and personal information which could later be used to destroy him (the "Insurance Policy" let's call it).

The federal prosecutors also argued that Cohen was not truly performing legal work for Trump; rather, they said, he was a fixer of Trump’s image and a trickster to Trump’s adversaries. Then they revealed that the source of their purported knowledge of the Trump-Cohen relationship was surveillance of Cohen, whose telephone calls, emails and text messages the feds had been capturing for months.

That means that federal prosecutors have overheard the president of the United States in telephone conversations he believed were protected by privilege, in which he was talking to a man under criminal investigation who he has said was his lawyer.

So, apparently, in America all that is needed for a regional prosecutor's office to spy on the President of the United States...to listen to the conversations he is having with his lawyer...to read any emails that are being shared between the POTUS and his legal advisors - is to simply say that the lawyer is suspected of some kind of criminal wrongdoings.

I have said it before, in another thread, that the incredble danger of the Mueller probe is that it has turned into an investigation of a person...whereby prosecutors are turning over every stone (and every stone of every person connected to that person) trying to find a crime that they can charge this person with - instead of it being an investigation of a crime, wherby they try to figure out who committed that crime.

The US Political System has indeed gone mad. The Democrats (and establishment Republicans) are using the levers of power that they still have to try to destroy a Constitutionally Elected sitting President...and the opposing forces within that power structure are now actively engaged in a process that will likely end up in the incarceration of large numbers of former (and current?) high ranking officials...Comey, Lynch, Clinton(s), McCabe and others.

I have no idea where this is going to all end up. But, it is clear to me that the Police State/Deep State is inceasingly in charge and unafraid to investigate, indict, prosecute and jail literally anyone...be afraid America.

Attorney Client Confidentiality is Dead

If all of that 4-d chess talk is true, it would be possible POTUS is using this to his advantage- getting those deep state testicles out of the mucky waters enough to cut them off, or at least expose them.

Oh, how I'd love to see the deep state exposed.

a reply to: lordcomac

Lol you actually believe Trump is not the same as the rest of them?.
The deep state must be pissing themselves laughing at you.
Trump is the same as Clinton Obama the lot of them.
They are playing you all like a fiddle.

Great post OP.

I have had this feeling about this since they declared they were going to have a special counsel. Also when they stated that that there was no collusion, yet are continuing the investigation confirmed it.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Do you think that Cohen should be treated differently just because he's the president's personal attorney? Because, other than that, there is nothing out of the ordinary. Cohen is not the first attorney to be the subject of an investigation (and search warrant) and he won't be the last. Attorneys can commit crimes.


cyb3rcrim3.blogspot.com...
chicagounbound.uchicago.edu...

a reply to: Phage

Can we just call him Saul Goodman?.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Personally...im a Trump hater. But you wouldn't know because I seem to defend him so much.

For the reasons you enumerate. You see...while I am not a fan of Trump...i am a fan of our due process and the rights we enjoy. I cannot see how i can cheer on the demise of Trump while not at the same time lamenting the death of my nations values.

a reply to: Phage

Do you think that Cohen should be treated differently just because he's the president's personal attorney?

Uh yes...
For one...Executive privilege is the power of the President of the United States and other members of the executive branch of the United States Government to resist certain subpoenas and other interventions by the legislative and judicial branches of government in pursuit of information or personnel relating to the executive. The power of Congress or the federal courts to obtain such information is not mentioned explicitly in the United States Constitution, nor is there any explicit mention in the Constitution of an executive privilege to resist such requests from Congress or courts.[1] The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled this privilege may qualify as an element of the separation of powers doctrine, derived from the supremacy of the executive branch in its own area of Constitutional activity.
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You should probably wait and see what happens with the investigation before assuming the Trump justice department is simply over stepping it's authority.

For all you know it's a slam dunk case.

Special councils are proven to be dodgy. So are FISA courts. However the propaganda that Obama invented this is obscene.

Ken star went looking for real estate ended up with lying about bj's and Gingrich who was initially for Mueller now is against the witch hunt was a huge cheer leader for Ken star bringing down Clinton.

Now he is against it. Ashcroft abused the FISA process 75 times the first year he was an AG.


How about people start getting upset over the privacy laws that effect their own lives. Suddenly now that DC is feeling the errors of their policies everyone is concerned.

Yet the nsa abusing regular citizens was practically a twinkle in the night sky.

Personally I think it's hilarious. In a sad pathetic way of course.

I hope DC eats itself alive..

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: mobiusmale

Do you think that Cohen should be treated differently just because he's the president's personal attorney? Because, other than that, there is nothing out of the ordinary as far as the warrant goes.

cyb3rcrim3.blogspot.com...
chicagounbound.uchicago.edu...

There are two issues here, in my mind.

1) If an attorney is, in fact, under investigation for a crime...and as a result a warrent is issued that leads to him being surveilled...then all intercepted communications not related to those suspected crimes (covered under the warrant) should be immediately destroyed due to attorney-client priviledge. Documents/records seized due to the raids conducted should be reviewed by an independent authority (whether a "Taint Team or a "Special Master"), prior to prosecutors gaining access to the records - to ensure that attorney client priviledge is left intact.

2) In this particular case, and only time will tell if my suspicions are correct, that many/most of the people who suddenly came under surveillance are, or were, associates of some kind of Donald Trump...Papadopolous, Page, Manafort, Flynn, Cohen - and maybe others we dont know about yet - which smells like conspiracy to gather evidence under false pretenses of (unknown) crimes committed by the President. This looks very much like an attempt to (a) fish for crimes that Trump might have been involved in and (b) to squeeze Trump associates, who are in their own legal peril, to tell them about "Trump crimes" they would have no way of discovering otherwise.

a reply to: shooterbrody

There was no subpeona.

There is no indication that the warrant had anything to do with Trump.

a reply to: mobiusmale

1) It is yet to be determined which communications are privileged and which can be admitted as evidence. That's what the current discussion in court is about.


2) Maybe, maybe not. Do you think Al Capone was treated unfairly by being convicted of tax evasion?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: mobiusmale

1) It is yet to be determined which communications are privileged and which can be admitted as evidence. That's what the current discussion in court is about.


2) Maybe, maybe not. Do you think Al Capone was treated unfairly by being convicted of tax evasion?

How about Clinton for perjury lieing about sexual relations while looking into real estate fraud.

It's funny to watch the public figures who were for Clinton impeachment now against the Mueller investigation.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You should probably wait and see what happens with the investigation before assuming the Trump justice department is simply over stepping it's authority.

Since my thoughts and opinions do not bear on any relevance to the case, I plan on doing what I normally do with any situation life throws at me: use whatever information is available to craft an opinion, then revise it as it is relevant.

a reply to: luthier

Yeah. I was going to bring up Ken Starr. Went with the Capone thing instead.

a reply to: mobiusmale

But Napolitano said it himself--if it's casual conversation not related to an actual case, or if its conversation related to illegal activity, attorney-client privilege is non-existent.

Now, if they have been surveilling Cohen without cause or warrant, then obviously that's a problem that the prosecutors will not be able to overcome in a court of law--I don't have the details on that. But it's pretty apparent that Mueller found sufficient evidence to cause a federal judge to approve a warrant for the seizure of Cohen's documents.

Of course, I have yet to see (and haven't sought it out directly) for what, exactly, the warrant was approved (pertaining to what specific charges, what types of documents, etc.), so what the attorneys will be able to argue to include for the indictment might be relatively narrow in scope, or as broad as the horizon.

Another wait-and-see game, unfortunately.

I love me some Judge Napolitano comments and opinions, though. He's usually spot on.

ETA: I'm increasingly believing that Cohen's real name might be Saul Goodman.


ETAA:

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: Phage

Can we just call him Saul Goodman?.

You beat me to it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: shooterbrody

There was no subpeona.

There is no indication that the warrant had anything to do with Trump.

so then tell me how his rights were not violated

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You should probably wait and see what happens with the investigation before assuming the Trump justice department is simply over stepping it's authority.

Since my thoughts and opinions do not bear on any relevance to the case, I plan on doing what I normally do with any situation life throws at me: use whatever information is available to craft an opinion, then revise it as it is relevant.

I think it's more than proven there is no real information available. But rather the justice dept run by people Trump picked are the ones saying Manafort was a back door and Cohen committed fraud is pretty telling.

Either trump has terrible judgement picking these people to run departments or the case is obvious enough they have to do something. Or both.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I guess I should add: Cohen comes across like Better Call Saul. I'd bet he's going down for just general paid lawyering, of some sort or another.

Whether it splashes on Trump, i do not know.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Love me some Judge as well. Not afraid to say what is really going on. Also points towards where things went wrong with policies that got us here.

Refreshing in today's world of turf defending no matter what.