Finally, the Trump is Putin's puppet narrative is dead... and has been

Love or hate Trump (I'm somewhere in the middle), the "Russian Narrative" has so far shown to be a waste of money, resources, and has served as a distraction taking up much of the medias time.

Glenn Greenwald did a very good piece with The Intercept which I encourage everyone to read, but I'll provide some of my favorite tidbits.

I'd like to start off with a bit of a tangent, but I feel it is important pretext into the argument, so much so Glenn starts out with it as well.

THE CIVIL WAR in Syria began in 2011 and escalated for five years during the Obama presidency, yet Barack Obama — despite demands from leaders of both parties and think tanks across the spectrum — never once bombed Syrian government targets. Although the CIA under Obama spent $1 billion per year to covertly train and fund Bashar al-Assad’s enemies, it was never close to enough to topple him: just enough to keep the war going.

Obama never bombed Assad or his military assets: a decision which, to this day, is scorned across official Washington. Hillary Clinton blasted Obama’s refusal to do more to stop Assad, and in 2017, she actively encouraged Donald Trump to bomb Assad and take out his air force.

While I am against any involvement in Syria, I find it odd the previous administration was fine with keeping the civil war raging, but not doing anything to provide a tangible change.

Indeed, not only did Obama refuse to risk military confrontation with Russia in Syria, he sought in 2016 — after Russia annexed Ukraine — to form a military partnership with Vladimir Putin to bomb agreed-to targets in Syria:

Arming Ukraine: For years, the Obama administration refused to send lethal arms to Ukraine despite bipartisan demand that he do so. Proponents of arming Ukraine argued that doing so would be a way to push back against Russia after the annexation of Crimea. Opponents, including Obama, believed that sending lethal arms would lead to an escalation of the conflict and needlessly antagonize Russia. As The Atlantic put it after its widely touted interview with Obama: “Obama’s theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one.” By stark contrast, the Trump administration last December approved a lethal arms transfers, including anti-tank weapons. The Russian government was not pleased. “Washington is trying to present itself as a mediator,” Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said. “It is not a mediator at all, it is an accomplice in fomenting a war.”

This in my opinion is probably the biggest act to show noncompliance with Russia. It puts American made lethal weapons in the hands of Ukrainians to use at Russia's doorstep and against their military.

Ill skip over some of the next examples, but provide the summary.

Appointing an Anti-Russia Hawk as U.N. Ambassador

Nominating an Anti-Russia Hawk as the Ambassador to Germany

Nominating an Anti-Russia Hawk as CIA Director and Secretary of State

Antagonizing Russia’s Iranian Allies

Appointing a National Security Adviser Who Is Hostile to Russia

Sanctioning Russian Oligarchs Close to Putin

Glenn than brings the whole point of his article to a very good point.

What makes this all the more dangerous is that Democrats, both because of ideology and political maneuvering, have painted themselves into a corner where they cannot possibly provide any meaningful, credible opposition to Trump’s increasingly dangerous path regarding Syria and Russia.

This thread was not meant to be a pro Trump thread. Personally, I'm not thrilled with recent action in Syria, nor do I see any point in antagonizing Russia.

The point is, if anything, Trump has proved to be more hostile to Russia than the previous Administration. That should cast doubt onto him being "Putin's puppet" or Putin having something on him as leverage. That narrative has been bolstered to the point that if you don't just accept it, you live under a rock or are delusional. That form of projection on the left has created a dangerous environment, and one that they are continuing to encourage. Where can that lead?

Lets let it die people, maybe they had some trolls sway some opinions, but that's about as far as that story goes. And if we go off of tangible facts in light of recent events... If anything, he's anti Russia.

Edit: disclaimer, I only put this in the mudpit to go easy on the mods... This touch usually strikes some cords but I encourage people to talk about this constructively.

I have to agree with you on this conclusion, even the part where you do not believe Trump is not the best president. Trump has done more to stifle Russian interests than either Obama or Bush. I do not know how the Democrats cannot see this. People are not very smart, they follow the leader instead of evaluating things properly.

I am in the middle too, always have been. But Trump is our elected president and I will accept him till he is gone. I hear so many people say that Trump is not my president. They are delusional. If Hillary would have won I would have said she was my president. I just lucked out, I did not like Trump that much but I extremely disliked Hillary. I liked Bernie the best. I used to think that Obama was decent, but looking at things now I see he was a mistake for our society. But while he was president, no matter what, he was my president.

All of the mainstream narratives are dead.

The old adage about beating a dead horse comes to mind. The horse is stinky and rotten. Maggots and flies are coming out of it's anal opening. And they keep beating and beating and beating.

a reply to: rickymouse

Exactly, and I love how you worded your point.

I'm kind of an "it is what it is" type person. I try not to let things really effect me... But I still like to have an opinion.

The hyper partisan environment feeds off of people playing team ball instead of being individuals.

Its a shame, because if you disagree with a specific topic or issue, people Warr quick to label you as part of a group.

All of this is creating an environment for a dangerous trajectory that may be unstoppable and even encouraged.

originally posted by: rickymouse
I have to agree with you on this conclusion, even the part where you do not believe Trump is not the best president. Trump has done more to stifle Russian interests than either Obama or Bush. I do not know how the Democrats cannot see this. People are not very smart, they follow the leader instead of evaluating things properly.

I am in the middle too, always have been. But Trump is our elected president and I will accept him till he is gone. I hear so many people say that Trump is not my president. They are delusional. If Hillary would have won I would have said she was my president. I just lucked out, I did not like Trump that much but I extremely disliked Hillary. I liked Bernie the best. I used to think that Obama was decent, but looking at things now I see he was a mistake for our society. But while he was president, no matter what, he was my president.

The Democrats clearly see it, they just can’t acknowledge it because then they lose a big excuse why they can’t get anywhere.

trump sided with putin regarding meddling.

ALL those folks who forgot russian communications on thier secuity forms.

hey good buddy we gotta show a sign of force cuz of the chemicals (and, distraction for bad week) so take cover.

a large portion of his wealth is from Russia.



and, now he's being a puss regarding those pesky sanctions and throwing niki haley under the bus.

putin is WAY more clever, and trump ( "do i look like i need hookers?" ) is easily blackmailable.

a reply to: knoxie

Got anything to back that up?

If not, it just feeds my point.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


regarding the sanctions halley said were coming and trump nixed?

a reply to: knoxie

trump sided with putin regarding meddling.

ALL those folks who forgot russian communications on thier secuity forms.

hey good buddy we gotta show a sign of force cuz of the chemicals (and, distraction for bad week) so take cover.

a large portion of his wealth is from Russia.

putin is WAY more clever, and trump ( "do i look like i need hookers?" ) is easily blackmailable.

How about all of that?

Take a look at Russia's economy right now... They're taking a hit. So how is that clever on Putins part?

And one thing the article didn't point out is how we killed dozens of Russian contractors.

I don't think the narrative holds up.

a reply to: rickymouse


putin didn't meddle in our election of obama or bush, so of course trump should be tuffer!

but, NOT implementing proper sanctions isn't tuff at all, it's weak.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


since when has putin cared about his people? he's one of the wealthiest men in the world on a $100,000 salary - how does that work? those poor Russian people are the epitome of sheep.. sad.

and, i think it's pretty well established that trumps money comes from russia, didn't don jr. confirm that.

a reply to: knoxie

It looks like you just want to believe it.... Because clearly the article laid out many factual examples on how it doesn't hold up.

All I see you presenting is extensions of mouthpiece rhetoric without proof....

And he nixed one round of sanctions.

I wouldn't call that argument water tight.

a reply to: knoxie

and, i think it's pretty well established that trumps money comes from russia, didn't don jr. confirmed that.

No.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I look at every event as a separate issue. I cannot conclude how Trump is till four years down the line, after I see how all his policies ended up. I do see a lot of chaos coming out of the left that is irrational, I see the media as a joke nowadays, a cruel joke. I used to disagree with Fox, now I think Fox was a mild version of what is going on now, MSM has gotten way out of hand, it needs to be stopped.

As far as Comey, the left bribed him to say things by saying he will get rich off a book. This is not considered an actual bribe, MSM is promoting this book for him. This is a dangerous practice, that book is close to treason, written by someone who should have been sent to prison for letting out classified information. What the F is happening to our society these days, we are doomed to fall apart. Liberal and conservative are supposed to be in balance, the liberals are losing it and are way out of line. We all have rights, the liberals are stepping on others toes and forcing their beliefs on others. I used to be proud of being a moderate liberal, now I want to be as far from the liberals as I can get. Something is poisoning their minds and the minds of others. I think it is in the food supply, the plant defense chemicals take many generations to properly get accustomed to. Pushing veggies on people, especially the stronger organic ones, may be a mistake. Plant defense chemicals get stronger in the absence of pesticides, some of those plant defense chemicals are way worse on our minds than any man made one.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Love or hate Trump (I'm somewhere in the middle), the "Russian Narrative" has so far shown to be a waste of money, resources, and has served as a distraction taking up much of the medias time....

The point is, if anything, Trump has proved to be more hostile to Russia than the previous Administration. That should cast doubt onto him being "Putin's puppet" or Putin having something on him as leverage. That narrative has been bolstered to the point that if you don't just accept it, you live under a rock or are delusional. That form of projection on the left has created a dangerous environment, and one that they are continuing to encourage.

This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.

Secondly, how does Trump being super hard on Russia fit in with his most recent reticence to actually enact further sanctions (again) that the Republican controlled congress requested?

a reply to: rickymouse

Comey is a disgrace, a former FBI director shouldn't profit off of sensationalized hyperbole... Especially during an investigation he has/had knowledge of.

Something is poisoning their minds and the minds of others. I think it is in the food supply, the plant defense chemicals take many generations to properly get accustomed to. Pushing veggies on people, especially the stronger organic ones, may be a mistake.

Power poisoned that group. It's no longer about the people (the basis the party was built on)... Now it's all about the preservation of the party itself.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Love or hate Trump (I'm somewhere in the middle), the "Russian Narrative" has so far shown to be a waste of money, resources, and has served as a distraction taking up much of the medias time....

The point is, if anything, Trump has proved to be more hostile to Russia than the previous Administration. That should cast doubt onto him being "Putin's puppet" or Putin having something on him as leverage. That narrative has been bolstered to the point that if you don't just accept it, you live under a rock or are delusional. That form of projection on the left has created a dangerous environment, and one that they are continuing to encourage.

This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.

Secondly, how does Trump being super hard on Russia fit in with his most recent reticence to actually enact further sanctions (again) that the Republican controlled congress requested?

Do you even know why Nicki wanted those sanctions? Second, can you provide proof the Syrian government or Russia used the chemical weapon on civilians? Third, can you provide proof chemical weapons were used?

Seems everyone likes to just take the MSM's word for it, but not surprising at this point. You people are complete sheep these days. What happened to the ATS that used to verify the truth and deny ignorance?

a reply to: Wayfarer

This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.

I suppose it's an opinion, but more an observation. Can you show me examples on how Obama was tougher? Because that was the basis of my point. Trump has proved to be tougher on Russia than Obama.

And you must not have read my OP because I specifically worded it to show that I don't want any of this to be the case. I see it as volatile.

As for nixing one round of sanctions in retaliation to an alleged Syrian chemical attack... We still don't have the results back. I don't even think we should have bombed them.

All that said, the media and the left will continue to push Trump to antagonize Russia.... And he will.

But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: rickymouse


putin didn't meddle in our election of obama or bush, so of course trump should be tuffer!

but, NOT implementing proper sanctions isn't tuff at all, it's weak.

Russia has been meddling in elections all along, just as our government meddles in all other countries elections. Obama endorsed a French presidential candidate even after he was out of office. That is meddling in elections.

This has been happening for many decades, it is just different now, they have new tools to use now.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


did putin meddle in obamas election?