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originally posted by: pikestaff
For one thing, France has never been Israel's friend, banning imports from Israel, actively helping the nazi's ship french Jews east. British 'labour' party anti semetic.
originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: anzha
Oh good god yes. That's what turned me somewhat away from Israel too. Much respect for their military, zero respect for some of the decisions they've made to screw everyone that wants to be their friends.
originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: mightmight
It's less about precious American technology than it is about Israel taking funding from the US to develop something and then handing it over to a potential US rival.
Israel blew trust then. And...then did it multiple times.
There are multiple projects that the US has funded and cooperated on that have been shut down prior to final development. It's almost never due to budgetary reasons, despite what the public is told: most of the time Israel has been caught feeding the tech to some other country, mostly China. I've experienced this first hand on a project I was working on.
As for WHY? That's pretty clear. Israel doesn't think of itself as an American ally, like Britain or Australia or even France or Poland. It doesn't think the US will have its back for long. So it is fostering other potential patrons. Who is going to be the next big kid on the block? China. Better get started on developing the relationship. Who might be after China? India. Yup, already started. Israel believes it stands alone. And through that lens, Israel's actions make sense.
Now, the Chinese would have gotten there eventually anyways. However, they went from the J-8 and (cancelled) J-9, far less capable aircraft to the J-10 very quickly. While I am fully cognizant of the fact China is very capable in the technical sense - even to the point of poking those that mock China here and love to point of the laws of physics don't care what color your flag is - this connection is a little too tight and fits too well, IMNSHO.
And whos fault is that? If the US has a problem with what Israel is selling to whomever, it should take a closer look at whats being done with their money.
I dont know if Israeli companies are honoring this agreement
Without the J-10 they would have just licensed build more SU-27 variants and grown from there. Perfectly capable fighters in their own right. I really dont think the alleged Israeli based avionic suite or whatever is particulary relevant in the great scheme of things.
It's less about precious American technology than it is about Israel taking funding from the US to develop something and then handing it over to a potential US rival. Israel blew trust then
And they did. And nuked those projects. The Lavi was the first time this was picked up on, at least in public. Discussion of the Lavi is FAR from dishonest when it is part and parcel of the origin of the aircraft that is the subject of the thread here.
Considering the US government provides $3.1 billion in military aid to Israel annually vs Israel's $18.6 billion defense budget, I'd think there would be a bit more consideration. But then, as I said, Israel doesn't view us an ally. It views us as a convenient patron. One that will be replaced. In time.
Come on this is just throwing stuff upon a wall and hoping something sticks.
And one of the great weaknesses of Russian aircraft? The avionics. The Su-27SK was the export version, t'boot, meaning what avionics it had were worse than the Russian version. Had the Israelis not been feeding that tech into China, then the Chinese would be a decade (plus or minus) behind where they are today with their avionics tech.
The Richard Kelly Smyth affair wasn’t particularly stellar either but, yes, pollards life sentence ignored the plea agreement, was unwarranted and did go well beyond sentences handed down in comparable cases. The issue was blown out of proportion to make a point. As was the continued refusal of the US to release him early.
PS just curious, since it's very OT for the forum, but were you referring to Pollard for the vindictive prosecution?