Is Catholicism FAKE CHRISTIANITY?

a reply to: EasternShadow

I meant like cardinals and religious organizations like the Jesuits. Something about that interests me because there's history I can research; regardless if it's positive or negative.

originally posted by: SkepticalRogue123
a reply to: EasternShadow

I meant like cardinals and religious organizations like the Jesuits. Something about that interests me because there's history I can research; regardless if it's positive or negative.

Then you mean tradition of transmission of divine revelation and divine scripture through church appointed magisterium. Yup, their robes are fanciful, I always wonder where the robes design idea from. They are obviously not from Jewish design.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Well more from a secular perspective if that makes sense. The closest thing "kosher" will have to be the skull caps the bishops, cardinals and even the Pope wear daily. Strangely neither the priest or Catholics wear them.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

I was once a catholic so I have a question to ask you-what if Christianity is fake?

Christianity is the grandchild of the Catholic faith.

Reading the early church texts (dead sea scrolls) it becomes clear that the Roman Holy Empire chose the "cannon of scripture" to push their agenda. Christians stand by the same scriptures, which forms their belief systems based on the same texts.

However, Jesus and the early church practiced the traditions and laws of the Jewish faith.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

I, personally believe that there is a VERY VERY small fraction of claimed Christians who are true Christians that practice what Jesus preaches.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Gonna go with the Dalai Lama here and say the true religion is the one that makes you kind.

If you are in a religion and it makes you hateful of your fellow mankind, then its the fake religion you are following.

It is agreeble. But I'm not intend to fast until my body become skinny and live in isolation at mountains just to suppress my human desire. No thank you. I hate overly discipline to my life.

I pick and choose what I like from all religions that resonates with me

Fasting...well, I could pehaps miss a few meals and be the better for it tbh.

Hmm, I wonder if the OG Lama desired to lose his desires...

a reply to: SkepticalRogue123

The Maltheser are still active and old. If you like that.

Religion is religion. If God gives a rats ass about religion, it's just religion in general. No one specific version is more right than another. Catholic? Fine. Baptist? Fine. Seventh Day? Fine. Buddhist? Fine. Muslim? Fine. All the same thing under the umbrella of religion.

The "I'm right and you're wrong so I will be in heaven while you go to hell" is the height of human hubris.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

one huge problem with your premise. you seem to be coming from a protestant point of view, which is "solo scriptorum", meaning the bible only. catholics come from a "sola scriptorum" view, which means bible as well as tradition.

the church teaches that not everything was written down at the start of christianity, and that the first pope, anointed by jesus himself, kept the traditions for his followers and heirs. the church feels that the traditions from the start are equal to the bible.

another thing to think about is that no other christian religion/denomination, has as much original text, or as much study on the original text. for over a thousand years the church hoovered up everything that was remotely christian, and destroyed everything that wasnt.

as for the bad stuff they have done, that is from an institutional point, not a religious point. many, many churches have had similar problems, the only difference is the size of the catholic organization versus a similar protestant one. also, you find the same crimes, or ones like it, in almost every major organization. how long was harvey weinstein covered for?

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
The video in the OP was made by Presents Of God Ministry; RationalWiki says:

The ministry is King James Only[15].

'Nuff said. It's easy to point fingers at the Catholics, but at least most Catholics aren't making such a far-fetched argument about the King James Version as those in the so-called "King James Only movement", idolizing it in such a way that they turned it into an idol (yet still ignore everything it says that does not fit their eisegesis or isn't useful for their eisegesis or directly contradicts their eisegesis, see video at the end of this comment; eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text).

An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture: wikipedia

Newton describes this letter as "an account of what the reading has been in all ages, and what steps it has been changed, as far as I can hitherto determine by records",[1] and "a criticism concerning a text of Scripture".[2] He blames "the Roman church" for many abuses in the world[1] and accuses it of "pious frauds".[2] He adds that "the more learned and quick-sighted men, as Luther, Erasmus, Bullinger, Grotius, and some others, would not dissemble their knowledge".
...
In the King James Version Bible, 1 John 5:7 reads:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Using the writings of the early Church Fathers, the Greek and Latin manuscripts and the testimony of the first versions of the Bible, Newton ... demonstrated that the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one," that support the Trinity doctrine, did not appear in the original Greek Scriptures.
...
The shorter portion of Newton's dissertation was concerned with 1 Timothy 3:16, which reads (in the King James Version):

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Newton [proved] that, by a small alteration in the Greek text, the word "God" was substituted to make the phrase read "God was manifest in the flesh." instead of "which was manifested in the flesh." [or "he was manisfested in the flesh"; more accurately "He was made manifest in flesh"]

They changed it to "God" for obvious reasons...

Almost all quotations in the video above are from the KJV, which still refutes the doctrine of the Trinity and the eisegesis it relies on.

The King James Version—How It Became Popular: Awake!—2011
Thirty Identifying Marks of False Christian Religions

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
Do you claim to be an angel? Or did you have other intentions with your accountname than presenting yourself to the ATS reader as an angel (or than giving that impression to some readers that you are presenting yourself as such)?

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Gonna go with the Dalai Lama here and say the true religion is the one that makes you kind.

If you are in a religion and it makes you hateful of your fellow mankind, then its the fake religion you are following.

And what did the Dalai Lama say about the behaviour of the Buddhists in Myanmar who are having a little genocide party in their country? Did he mention anything about Jesus' phrase "by their fruits you will recognize those men" (Matthew 7:15-20)?

If more people practiced versions of what the Jehovah’s Witnesses preach and practice, the Holocaust could have been prevented and genocide would scourge the world no more. - Holocaust Politics by John K. Roth, 2001

John K. Roth (wikipedia)

John K. Roth is an American-based author, editor, and, for over 30 years, professor of philosophy of religion at Claremont McKenna College. In 1988 he was named Council for Advancement and Support of Education's U.S. National Professor of the Year by The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching.
...
Roth made national news in 1998 soon after being chosen to direct the Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum...

In case you were wondering, John K. Roth is not a witness of Jehovah. I imagine he's a Trinitarian allthough I can't be certain from the information on wikipedia.

Current events-The End of False Religion is imminent!

a reply to: adjensen

I use to think like that but now I realize that Catholic was not the only Christianity. There have been different interpretations since the beginning. Some are even mentioned by John in his letters. Early church fathers argued against the Ebionites or Nazarenes in addition to various other heresies. In fact, there were so many different heresies it seems like this was a main subject of Christian writing for centuries.

Don't forget the Gnostics. This continued in various forms for centuries also. I have just been reading about how much of Celtic and Finnish Christianity contained Gnostic elements. It seems like the early church was not really as unified in its' dogma as a short history would have you believe. Attempts to stamp out groups like the Cathars continued into medieval times.

My question is, once you eliminate Catholicism, which of the thousands of remaining denominations represent the true faith?

originally posted by: whereislogic
And what did the Dalai Lama say about the behaviour of the Buddhists in Myanmar who are having a little genocide party in their country? Did he mention anything about Jesus' phrase "by their fruits you will recognize those men"

Well first off, don't really care. Im not Buddhist. All religions have pearls of wisdom you can pluck out and adopt as your own sort of life guide imo.

As far as what he said about the behavior of them however, well, google is a thing so this took me a half second to find

As the violence in Myanmar continues, the Dalai Lama urged monks to act according to the peaceful principles of their religion and told them to “remember the Buddhist faith.”

It isn’t the first time that the Dalai Lama has explicitly denounced the attacks on Muslims. In May he told an audience at the University of Maryland that “killing people in the name of religion is unthinkable” after delivering the Anwar Sadat Lecture for Peace. He said, “I pray for them (the monks) to think of the face of Buddha.”

So gonna go with he is opposed to it, as much as he tries to stay out of global politics anyhow, he isn't a fan and is expressing it regularly.

The End of False Religion is imminent!

Would be nice indeed of religions ended, but thats not gonna happen for awhile.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Ever wonder how people can get it into their heads that there isn't an answer to questions they pose on the internet considering that every question you can ever think of can be cross referenced on your search engine of choice to see if it has been asked and answered before?

a reply to: SaturnFX
So that's a no? He didn't mention anything about Jesus' phrase (I already assumed he condemned it and tried to distance Buddhism from the behaviour of its adherents, the fruits of that religion; the 2 questions should have been phrased as one or I should have mentioned what I already assumed)? So no consequences for the Buddhist monks in Myanmar who will continue claiming to be and operating as Buddhist monks with all the financial benefits of Buddhism and without serious opposition from the Dalai Lama or other Buddhists in other countries? Like the way the pope can excommunicate priests if he would actually do that to those priests who are still teaching the flock in Rwanda?

The 1994 genocide in Rwanda represents one of the clearest cases of genocide in modern history. From early April 1994 through mid-July 1994, members of the small Central African state’s majority Hutu ethnic group systematically slaughtered members of the Tutsi ethnic minority. - Encyclopedia of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity.

Organizers of the genocide exploited the historic concept of sanctuary to lure tens of thousands of Tutsi into church buildings with false promises of protection; then Hutu militia and soldiers systematically slaughtered the unfortunate people who had sought refuge, firing guns and tossing grenades into the crowds gathered in church sanctuaries and school buildings, and methodically finishing off survivors with machetes, pruning hooks, and knives. . . . The involvement of the churches, however, went far beyond the passive use of church buildings as death chambers. In some communities, clergy, catechists, and other church employees used their knowledge of the local population to identify Tutsi for elimination. In other cases, church personnel actively participated in the killing.”​—Christianity and Genocide in Rwanda.

“The main allegation concerning the [Catholic] Church is that it switched its allegiance from the Tutsi elite to the creation of a Hutu-led revolution, thereby assisting in Habyarimana’s subsequent rise to power in a majority Hutu state. In terms of the actual genocide, critics once again hold the Church directly responsible for inciting hatred, sheltering perpetrators, and failing to protect those who sought refuge within its walls. There are also those who believe that, as the spiritual leader of the majority population in Rwanda, the Church is morally responsible for failing to take all available measures to end the killing.”​—Encyclopedia of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity.

Words intended for marketing a false religion usually aren't that useful in preventing genocide....again.

originally posted by: whereislogic
the fruits of that religion;
...
Words intended for marketing a false religion usually aren't that useful in preventing genocide....again.

Yes, judge the religion by the followers, even if its not the majority....doesn't matter if the main people of said religion condemn the actions, if some do it, all do it.

meanwhile...
Christian militias in Central African Republic 'burnt witches at stake', says UN report

And lets not forget the KKK

Vehemently anti-Catholic, the 1915 Klan had an explicitly Protestant Christian terrorist ideology, basing their beliefs in part on a "religious foundation" in Protestant Christianity and targeting Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities,

Lets look around a bit more, flip some stones as it were to see whats under it

The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), is a rebel group that seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, and is a proscribed terrorist organization in India. Group activities have been described as Christian terrorists engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs
...
Reports from the state government and Indian media describe activities such as the acquisition by the NLFT of explosives through the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, and threats of killing Hindus celebrating religious festivals. Over 20 Hindus in Tripura were reported to have been killed by the NLFT from 1999 to 2001 for resisting forced conversion to Christianity. According to Hindus in the area, there have also been forced conversions of tribal villagers to Christianity by armed NLFT militants. These forcible conversions, sometimes including the use of "rape as a means of intimidation", have also been noted by academics outside of India. In 2000, the NLFT broke into a temple and gunned down a popular Hindu preacher popularly known as Shanti Kali.

Well, already by your measurement, christianity is judged by the fruit it bears...and its rotten..but lets continue in order for you to truly understand the depravity that non-catholic christianity makes of people

Nagaland:
They believe in Christian theocracy. The NSCN has been declared a terrorist organisation in India under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967. It is believed that the organisation primarily raises funds through trafficking drugs from Burma and selling smuggled weapons to other insurgent groups in the region. The group reportedly indulges in kidnapping, assassination, extortion, forced conversion, and other terrorist activities

Lebanon:
Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon's 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.

Myanmar:
God's Army was an armed revolutionary Christian insurgent group that opposed the then military junta of Myanmar (Burma). The group was an offshoot of the Karen National Union. They were based along the Thailand-Burma border, and conducted a string of audacious guerrilla actions—including allegedly being involved in the seizure of the Myanmar embassy in Bangkok-during the 1990s and early 2000s.They have been described as a terrorists.

Northern Ireland:
The Orange Volunteers (OV) is a Ulster loyalist paramilitary group in Northern Ireland. It was formed in 1998 by loyalists who opposed the Belfast Agreement and the loyalist ceasefires. Over the following year it carried out a wave of bomb and gun attacks on Catholics and Catholic-owned properties in rural areas, but since 2000 has been relatively inactive. The group has been associated with elements of the Orange Order and has a Protestant fundamentalist ideology. Its original leader was Pastor Clifford Peeples. The OV are a Proscribed Organisation in the United Kingdom under the Terrorism Act 2000. One of the group's first actions was a synchronized attack on 11 Catholic churches. Peeples defended the attack on the grounds that the churches were "bastions of the Antichrist"

Uganda
The Lord's Resistance Army, a guerrilla army, was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in 2005. It has been accused of using child soldiers and of committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and using forced child labourers as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves.

I think thats enough to paint a pretty convincing picture...seems when christians get together, murder is on their mind...again, using the measurement you are adhering to here...judge the tree by the fruit it bears.

Matt.7. [1] Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Wise words Matt.
Luckily I don't judge christianity by some groups and even the odd dictator that uses religious influence to cause bloodshed...but then again, I am not a christian, so I guess I understand that value better than the followers of that religion

Catholics as you point out did horrible things, Christians of all sects did horrible things, some buddhists have done bad things, muslims do bad things
religion in its entirety has produced the fruit..and its all rotten.

So far, seems Wiccans might be the only pure religion out there.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SaturnFX

Ever wonder how people can get it into their heads that there isn't an answer to questions they pose on the internet considering that every question you can ever think of can be cross referenced on your search engine of choice to see if it has been asked and answered before?

I reckon they never learned internet dot com enough to realize you can research in a instant the counter to what they are saying.

Funny thing is, I don't mind christians. I think most of them are pretty good hearted...thats most people tbh. But, if I had to choose a single global religion, it would be Buddhism...Christianity you can justify all sorts of villainy in the scriptures. Buddhism, not soo much. People however are always gonna people, so nothing is ever without corruption.

a reply to: SaturnFX
A little more about it:

Catholic Church's celebration of convicted priests is genocide ideology, scholars say: The New Times, July 10, 2016

Genocide scholars have likened the forthcoming Silver Jubilee celebration that the Catholic Church of Kabgayi Diocese is set to hold for its two priests convicted of genocide crimes during the genocide against the Tutsi in 1994, to genocide ideology and minimisation of genocide.
...

Genocide: Catholic Church should excommunicate culpable priests: The New Times (letters), March 27, 2017

Editor,

RE: “CNLG, survivors welcome Rwanda Vatican talks” (The New Times, March 21).

This acknowledgment by the Pope is a step forward in revamping relations with the Holy See; however, it would be better if the Church can help arrest its very own who participated in the Genocide against the Tutsi and those who continue to deny the same genocide they participated in. Indeed, they betrayed both humanity and their evangelical mission as priests, nuns, missionaries.

Let’s hope that the Catholic Church is planning for this, otherwise it will remain disfigured.

Bemba

***********************

What the Church should do is excommunicate and distance itself from such clerics, then it would be up to judicial systems to know what to do.

I know the Church has sort of looked the other way and allowed those priests to work in different parishes, but has there been a political will in those countries to arrest them? Would France prosecute Munyeshyaka if he’s excommunicated? I believe it will be hard for the Church to shield criminals if there is a political will to prosecute them. But having said that, the Holy See should at least do their part and excommunicate these priests.

Ed

Some condemning words that are designed for their political correctness in particular geographical areas (such as the US or the West) are easy to make. When the marketing intent shines through the words it all becomes a bit more moot. At least the Catholic Church is always quick to apologize for the behaviour of its adherents when it's bad marketing not to do so:

Is there something like excommunication in Buddhism? I don't think there is. I wonder what the Dalai Lama or other influential Buddhists in neighbouring countries could do to make it clear to the Myanmar Buddhists that they shouldn't be getting their spiritual guidance from the (extremist) Buddhist monks in Myanmar that are inciting hatred by their teachings (and often more respect for animals than for certain groups of humans, as per the teachings of Buddhism that aren't spelled out that way but still have that effect because of their misleading nature, or is that teaching limited to Hinduism?).
Muslim man dies in India after attack by Hindu 'cow protectors' (The Guardian)