Girl, 17 boy, 16, is gunned down and 15-year-old youth stabbed in another night of violence.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I was afraid to ask....

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

Mine don't... even my dog licks them!

Be honest...is that all that your dog licks?

Depends which dog... I have 4...

Dogs that is...

Kindest respects

Lags

a reply to: Pandaram

It's not "we" although I appreciate the default when discussing one's city or country.

You did not shoot anybody. I am also guessing you highly condemn that action.

In the US "we" get that all the time. Yet, the violence problem is very concentrated. The vast majority of places in the US are very safe. No worries. A few isolated locations skew the overall though.

If "we" want to solve the problem, "we" need to look at the problem for what it is and where it exists. Otherwise it's a waste of time. I wish London the best in the same endeavor.

originally posted by: Pandaram

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Pandaram

Doesn’t London have strict gun laws? And yet somehow, a criminal used a gun to kill some kids? Maybe if they had more strict laws, this could have been prevented? Maybe if they basically banned guns and knives, and had like, a buyback or turn your knives in system?

Yes. There is lot of measures to control gun and knife crime. But it seems to escalating.

I think its down to benefits cuts. Used to be lots of britsh youth thrive on job seekers allowance. Now JSA and other doles strictly controlled..

Not complaining.. i am against the free handouts. But the problams is, benefit cuts should be coupled with heavy punishments for those who brake the law..

Thrive on around £60 a week? Me thinks you're out of touch.

Well, the money might be slightly different since London has it's own economy but I hardly think anyone has thrived on benefits for the last 10-15 years, benefits have not been raised in relation to inflation... Neither have wages for that matter.

60 quid is absolutely nothing to someone who can acquire a firearm and has the ability to us it... Who to rob?

Simple, drug dealers. They don't report the crime or file for insurance.

Not complaining.. i am against the free handouts. But the problams is, benefit cuts should be coupled with heavy punishments for those who brake the law..

I was going to make this reply about putting you into the mindset of an individual willing to use a gun, but you seem to be too far flung to understand.

State benefits are for feeding, clothing and housing your fellow citizens. For most people they are a lifeline, the very thing that stops them being destitute and homeless. Potentially the very thing stopping them pursuing a life of crime... Out if necessity.

You don't get dole in jail. We don't have laws for "classes" of people. So I'm kinda perplexed as to your "benefit cuts should be coupled with heavy punishments by those who break the law" comment.

a reply to: intrptr

We have fast response teams, the response time is very good.

I'd assume they loiter around motorways, from personal experience I've always noticed cops driving Volvo T5's were armed. They're "interceptors" maybe someone else who is more knowledgeable can comment.

But yes, our cops are armed and always have been. They were never unarmed in any part of our history. It's just that a firearm wasn't always deemed necessary equipment and still isn't.

For instance, the US lost more cops to firearms than our full nation, it's usually the case every year.

The majority if our police do not need guns.

a reply to: ABNARTY

It's the same here.

The problem is difficult to define, most murders are committed out of emotional anguish of some kind.

Ultimately we are all products of society, so I guess we should all blame each other.

If it isn't a gun it'll be a knife, if it isn't a knife another method will be sought. It's fairly obvious it's the individual that is at fault.

Society is broken, we should all hug some hoodies or something... That'll fix it.

originally posted by: Pandaram
Neighbours said they heard gunshots at around 9.30pm on Monday. One witness, who works in a nearby shop, said he heard three bangs which sounded like fireworks.

Less than half an hour after the alarm was first raised in Tottenham, police were alerted to another shooting around three miles away in east London which left a 16-year-old boy fighting for life.


www.standard.co.uk...

One hell of a rant there buddy! Jeez.

a reply to: Pandaram

good thing they banned guns...

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: intrptr

Honestly, I like money. It feels good to have money but I'm more than content with enough to get by. I'm comfortable right now and that's all I need. How these people don't have enough when they have Trillions is beyond me. I guess I will never understand that mindset.

You're a good Roman then, comfortable in the system.

I lived outside it most of my life. To me comfort is a warm, dry place to sleep and a full belly.

a reply to: RAY1990

For instance, the US lost more cops to firearms than our full nation, it's usually the case every year.

The majority if our police do not need guns.

Tends to escalate the situation. For instance, city parking 'police' aren't armed here, I haven't heard of any that get shot or stabbed. They get into some sticky situations too, pissing off many by writing expensive tickets...

...and yet, just arguing, no gunplay.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: intrptr

Honestly, I like money. It feels good to have money but I'm more than content with enough to get by. I'm comfortable right now and that's all I need. How these people don't have enough when they have Trillions is beyond me. I guess I will never understand that mindset.

You're a good Roman then, comfortable in the system.

I lived outside it most of my life. To me comfort is a warm, dry place to sleep and a full belly.

That is precisely my comfort too. I have a roof over mine and my family's heads and food in our bellies.That is my ideal of a good life with my woman by my side and a few beers at night. That is all I need.

Not seeing the problem here.

They aren't being murdered by guns for the most part. It's knives.

So, therefore, it is morally superior murder.

Quit whining.

need more strics bullet laws ... and restrict whetstone uce

a reply to: Wide-Eyes
Yes they are afraid. You know what that translates to? They will either kill you first if there is a hint of a doubt, or let you kill off each other and pick up the pieces.

This is becoming a societal problem. It is not isolated to any one area or country. You can thank the global society for that, and it is one thing that everyone wants to skirt over or pretend it doesn't exist.

The number of victims I attend that are under the age of 18 is mind boggling. We have complained about a deteriorating society for years, but we have done nothing to ebb the tide. Now we are reaping the results and maybe it is too late.

I can't even get the parents to take responsibility for their children while they are lying on the stretcher after being traumatized. They just want to blame everyone and anything else, and of course their children are as pure as the driven snow.

If the house is flooding because no one turned off the faucet in the kitchen, I don't care how much water you mop up in the dinning room, the water is just going to keep rising.

a reply to: projectvxn

They aren't being murdered by guns for the most part. It's knives.

And trucks...

Ban all privately owned vehicles!

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Guns simply cannot work for self-defence in the UK. It basically comes down to law.

Since lawful ownership of a gun in the UK requires 2 separate and secure locations, one for ammunition and another for the weapon. It becomes extremely difficult to argue "self-defence" with a firearm.

Because self-defense in terms of the law has to be proportional. Lots of things can define what is proportionate, such as previous assaults, mental illness or disability, harassment etc...

There's a very fine line between defence and offence, our laws tread that line.

For instance if I was to be jumped by a gang and in reflex I ended up stomping on one of my attackers and thus killed him it isn't as cut and dry that I committed murder or involuntary manslaughter.

It might be that I've been jumped on numerous occasions in the past or been hospitalised off the same attackers, in this case it might be deemed reasonable to say my excessive use of force was hardly excessive giving past circumstances.

Now if I hear someone break into my house and then shoot them there is nothing I can do to claim self-defence. There's a few reasons for this.

1. It takes time to retrieve a firearm and then ammunition.

2. If your weapon was already loaded you shouldn't have the firearm, this indicates premeditated "self-defence" which isn't self defence.

Basically there is very very few scenarios where shooting someone in self-defence can be permissable by law.

Apologies for the long post, I had a lot more to put in but called it short. Weapons for self-defence might not have been what you were alluding to. Usually in terms of law a weapon for self-defence would be something immediately to hand and you must have perceived genuine threat to life. Very few scenarios lend themselves to proportionate defence with a firearm.

Hope that all makes sense?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: RAY1990

For instance, the US lost more cops to firearms than our full nation, it's usually the case every year.

The majority if our police do not need guns.

Tends to escalate the situation. For instance, city parking 'police' aren't armed here, I haven't heard of any that get shot or stabbed. They get into some sticky situations too, pissing off many by writing expensive tickets...

...and yet, just arguing, no gunplay.

People get pissed due to parking tickets but not pissed enough to uh... Piss your life away?

Usually murder or abuse comes from people you know, that tends to allude that emotions are the driving force for such things, usually.

A gun might escalate a situation, but with that being said if a gun would escalate then I'd say the situation was already escalated. Not everyone is unstable. The police (here anyways) love to know exactly who they are dealing with so they are prepared.

As you probably know though some people are ticking time bombs though, a ticket can get you assaulted with the wrong person, the kind of people that a wrong look could set off.

Usually when the police get involved the perp is already irate, ready to make their last stand or grand escape, Molotov the ex's house or whatever.

Someone escalating a parking ticket to murder are probably not the kind of unstable people society wants or needs.

That's how I see it

a reply to: RAY1990

My point was more, if 'subjects' resist and the police are armed then they tend to goto their armament quicker than if they didn't have arms and were forced to de escaalate a non 'hostile' situation.

Theres all kinds of argument; people shout, gesture, wave their hands wildly, pointing fingers, approaching to arms reach and verbally abusing others, without actually, actually touching anyone.

Any of this behavior will cause the police to go ballistic here. Unless you're a meter maid, then they just smile and ride out the storm.

Other cases of domestic nature I wasn't addressing.

Heres what I mean about remaining calm and diffusing, de escalating in the face of abuse...

a reply to: RAY1990

It all makes sense, and it's something that I did already know from past research.

And I think that it's terrible for the average person, IMO.

But I've been American all my life, so my norm isn't everyone else's, and I get that. I just think that laws like that really put the law-abiding, average person at a massive disadvantage in the small event of an attack or home invasion--too much potential punishment to the victim, ya know?

a reply to: intrptr

I'd have to dig into this a bit more but initially I didn't think it would be due to them being armed or not.

I was thinking it was probably down to the fact that speeding tickets are issued to generally law-abiding citizens who may do a song and dance but seldom ever "fight the system"especially physically.

I imagine if a criminal receives a parking ticket he/she would just accept it rather than going through the system or being subject to more background checks on the spot.

Or maybe your" ticket maids" hold the secret of public relations for policing.