How come liberals don't want to talk about mental health in relation to school shootings?

a reply to: amazing

My dos centavos from experiencing the same thing.

It distracts. Mental health is not their concern. Getting rid of guns is. To deviate slows down the train.

You will probably hear a talking point something like: The guns kill now. Mental health does not kill now. We can get to it later. Do not avoid the subject!!!

I have ~100 people friended on FB. All walks of life. Less than 10 fall into this category mentioned above. They are rabid on the subject. To be fair, I have the same number rabid against them. The rest? Maybe they just want to avoid the useless drama regardless of their view or maybe they're apathetic.

For the life of me, I have a dang near impossible time getting folks to engage on details. If it's not on Salon or the Blaze, forget it. CDC? FBI? Forget that...

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: amazing

" How come liberals don't want to talk about mental health in relation to school shootings? "


Because they are Complete Self Centered Emotionless Parrots who have been Debased in this Human Life by Deceivers of the TRUTH Right in Front of Their Noises !! Sorry , you Asked for it Sir !

You're correct to a degree, except conservatives can also be emotionless parrots who have been debased by the talking heads on right wing media, but I digress.

Not if the Supposition does not Except the Presented Party " Lines " . If You are Able to See in Real Time that Dem , Rep , Are All the SAME.......

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: amazing

I'm liberal, and I genrally include issues of mental health when discussing school shootings, or any kind of mass shooting for that matter, because it's definitely a mental health issue when any nut shoots up a place. I think most people do not dismiss mental health issues when mass shootings are involved.

That's kinda the point.

I have to disagree....I think most people dismiss it. They'll acknowledge it if you say something, but they'll switch gears to gun control right away. Don't take my guns or we need a some stricter laws. That always becomes the switch in the discussion.

Our media especially and I think most people get their ques from the media they watch. Not watching CNN or MSNBC or FOX NEWS or Talk radio is pretty liberating. I can actually form my own opinions and not become brainwashed.

I get your point, but the premise of your OP was that liberals don't discuss mental health regarding school shootings. That is patently incorrect (See Sandy hook, VA tech, Columbine, and others where there was clearly a mental health issue that was talked about), and even extends to all mass shooting.

Most people do not dismiss it, but they also don't dismiss such easy access to certain firearms some people (mentally ill people) shouldn't have.

But no, most people cannot form their own opinions.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: amazing

" How come liberals don't want to talk about mental health in relation to school shootings? "


Because they are Complete Self Centered Emotionless Parrots who have been Debased in this Human Life by Deceivers of the TRUTH Right in Front of Their Noises !! Sorry , you Asked for it Sir !

You're correct to a degree, except conservatives can also be emotionless parrots who have been debased by the talking heads on right wing media, but I digress.

Not if the Supposition does not Except the Presented Party " Lines " . You the are Able to See in Real Time that Dem , Rep , Are All the SAME.......

agree that both parties are essentially the same. I spend a lot of time arguing here on ATS when people only tell of the evils of one party and not the other. The only thing that seperates them are keywords like Abortion and Phrases like Climate change and gun control, but if you really take a look at it, Niether party ever really does anything about any of the keywords or phrases.

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: amazing

I'm liberal, and I genrally include issues of mental health when discussing school shootings, or any kind of mass shooting for that matter, because it's definitely a mental health issue when any nut shoots up a place. I think most people do not dismiss mental health issues when mass shootings are involved.

That's kinda the point.

I have to disagree....I think most people dismiss it. They'll acknowledge it if you say something, but they'll switch gears to gun control right away. Don't take my guns or we need a some stricter laws. That always becomes the switch in the discussion.

Our media especially and I think most people get their ques from the media they watch. Not watching CNN or MSNBC or FOX NEWS or Talk radio is pretty liberating. I can actually form my own opinions and not become brainwashed.

I get your point, but the premise of your OP was that liberals don't discuss mental health regarding school shootings. That is patently incorrect (See Sandy hook, VA tech, Columbine, and others where there was clearly a mental health issue that was talked about), and even extends to all mass shooting.

Most people do not dismiss it, but they also don't dismiss such easy access to certain firearms some people (mentally ill people) shouldn't have.

But no, most people cannot form their own opinions.

Thanks for the reply. I think what I'm trying to say is that I think Mental Health should be front and center but my Liberal friends put Gun Control front and center. And if you look at possible legislation or policy changes...there's nothing mental health or Bullying coming down the line but there's lot's of discussion about gun laws and policies. I don't wholly disagree with you.

a reply to: amazing

What?

Mental health in relation to firearms has been a topic of debate for some time.

The problem comes when the pro-2nd side of the discussion realizes that to actually address the issue of mental illness and firearm ownership, you have to put regulations/restrictions in place.

That is an automatic disqualifier for many of them and the debate becomes pointless. Then when some nutbag goes on a killing spree and it's found that the person had some mental issues, the pro-2nd crowd then cries about not talking about mental illness.

This pointless circle jerk is what leads to people getting pissed and voicing their opinions in the public square.

We will never get anywhere unless the anti-firearm crowd realizes that our right to bear arms is not going away and the pro-2nd crowd bellies-up to the bar and discusses this issue like grown adults.

Part of the problem is that kids are not allowed to defend themselves from bullies anymore. When kids physically and verbally abuse classmates and there is little or no punishments or restrictions such behavior escalates. Everyone should be allowed to defend themselves.
My grandson walked away from a bully and was jumped from behind and his head was smacked on a cement floor. He fought back so was deemed to be as much at fault as the bully. WTF! He got the same discipline measures the bully did. This was about 5 or 6 years ago.
Back in the late '70s early 80's my son had problems in elementary school with a bully. This boy was in and out of the school district. All I ever heard about it was at parent-teacher conferences. My son never complained or told me. Teachers said my son never started anything but never avoided the bully. My response was as long as my son wasn't starting trouble he had every right to finish it and defend himself. Multiple teachers agreed with me.

When there is no help for kids who are abused verbally and emotionally , especially when there are other problems, why are we so surprised when emotions that are bottled up explode violently?

Mental health issues are badly neglected but using them as criteria for disallowing gun ownership is a very slippery slope. People get misdiagnosed all the time. Meds are used for many different ailments and not everyone responds the same way to a drug. Have you ever been asked about drug allergies at a doctor visit? There are many people who just will not get help if it means their gun ownership will be threatened or terminated. Witness people who do not get a medical marijuana card for that reason.

a reply to: LeoLeoMidWest

Yep. Ours was bullied for a couple months early this school year. He didn't say anything to us or anyone at the school, but I knew something was up because he wasn't acting right. I didn't get it out of him until he came home with a huge goose egg on his head though that he couldn't hide that the real story came out.

The school did put a stop to it, and he had started taking martial arts. By now, he's become a bit of a tank. I don't think he realizes what he could do.

We have told him to listen to his instructor when it comes to self-defense, but we've also told him that if he ever gets into a situation where he needs it at school that he will need to understand that he will get in trouble at the school, but if all he's done is defend himself like he's been taught, his father and I will back him 100%.

It's a shame in a sense that things are so complicated these days, and I'm hoping just the confidence that comes from being physically capable will help insulate him from most trouble. Bullies like picking on the weak, not the ones who could fight back.

I'm a liberal or what y'all would call a liberal (actually a fiscal conservative and a social liberal). I'll talk about mental health.

What about mental health and guns do you want to talk about?

I

a reply to: amazing

Same Team , Different Jersey's ........


McCain /Schumer

Polosi / Ryan

Schiff / McConell


Bunch of Self Centered Famous in their Own Minds Wannabe's . Pfff!..... That Duality is a Bee Otch , eh ? GOD Help US All..............

a reply to: amazing

In addition, a great thread from about a month and a half ago.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It covered the CDC study on gun violence. AWESOME source of data and information. What better way to start a lucid plan to better the situation? The response? A whopping 6 repliers (not including me). Yet on this thread, we have waaaay more than 6 people claiming this or that without one shred of evidence one way or the other.

If anything, it gets me angry. Not at the OP, just in general on the subject.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: amazing

What?

Mental health in relation to firearms has been a topic of debate for some time.

The problem comes when the pro-2nd side of the discussion realizes that to actually address the issue of mental illness and firearm ownership, you have to put regulations/restrictions in place.

That is an automatic disqualifier for many of them and the debate becomes pointless. Then when some nutbag goes on a killing spree and it's found that the person had some mental issues, the pro-2nd crowd then cries about not talking about mental illness.

This pointless circle jerk is what leads to people getting pissed and voicing their opinions in the public square.

We will never get anywhere unless the anti-firearm crowd realizes that our right to bear arms is not going away and the pro-2nd crowd bellies-up to the bar and discusses this issue like grown adults.

So let's have a discussion about mental illness that doesn't revolve around any restrictions. Like Anti bullying measures that work, like early intervention of mental illness or problem behaviors, like more school councilors or nurses that could address some of these issues, like more federal money for mental health treatment.

originally posted by: LeoLeoMidWest
Part of the problem is that kids are not allowed to defend themselves from bullies anymore. When kids physically and verbally abuse classmates and there is little or no punishments or restrictions such behavior escalates. Everyone should be allowed to defend themselves.
My grandson walked away from a bully and was jumped from behind and his head was smacked on a cement floor. He fought back so was deemed to be as much at fault as the bully. WTF! He got the same discipline measures the bully did. This was about 5 or 6 years ago.
Back in the late '70s early 80's my son had problems in elementary school with a bully. This boy was in and out of the school district. All I ever heard about it was at parent-teacher conferences. My son never complained or told me. Teachers said my son never started anything but never avoided the bully. My response was as long as my son wasn't starting trouble he had every right to finish it and defend himself. Multiple teachers agreed with me.

When there is no help for kids who are abused verbally and emotionally , especially when there are other problems, why are we so surprised when emotions that are bottled up explode violently?

Mental health issues are badly neglected but using them as criteria for disallowing gun ownership is a very slippery slope. People get misdiagnosed all the time. Meds are used for many different ailments and not everyone responds the same way to a drug. Have you ever been asked about drug allergies at a doctor visit? There are many people who just will not get help if it means their gun ownership will be threatened or terminated. Witness people who do not get a medical marijuana card for that reason.

I agree with you. I teach Self Defense on a daily basis. The core principle is that you have the right to fight back and defend yourself and my techniques can be painful to those attacking. My sons know that if they get assaulted, bullied or attacked that I expect them to fight back and to help those that can't fight back. They have and will.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
I'm a liberal or what y'all would call a liberal (actually a fiscal conservative and a social liberal). I'll talk about mental health.

What about mental health and guns do you want to talk about?

I

They can be seperate issues. We need to talk about mental health and how to treat those with issues before they snap. Then we need to talk about bullying and how to best tackle that issue. See nothing about guns there.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: amazing

In addition, a great thread from about a month and a half ago.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It covered the CDC study on gun violence. AWESOME source of data and information. What better way to start a lucid plan to better the situation? The response? A whopping 6 repliers (not including me). Yet on this thread, we have waaaay more than 6 people claiming this or that without one shred of evidence one way or the other.

If anything, it gets me angry. Not at the OP, just in general on the subject.

AT least we're talking here. That's a start.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: amazing

What?

Mental health in relation to firearms has been a topic of debate for some time.

The problem comes when the pro-2nd side of the discussion realizes that to actually address the issue of mental illness and firearm ownership, you have to put regulations/restrictions in place.

That is an automatic disqualifier for many of them and the debate becomes pointless. Then when some nutbag goes on a killing spree and it's found that the person had some mental issues, the pro-2nd crowd then cries about not talking about mental illness.

This pointless circle jerk is what leads to people getting pissed and voicing their opinions in the public square.

We will never get anywhere unless the anti-firearm crowd realizes that our right to bear arms is not going away and the pro-2nd crowd bellies-up to the bar and discusses this issue like grown adults.

Theres also another hindrance and that is mention sensible gun legislation and that is translated as firearm removal, somehow middle ground needs to be found to simply have a reasonable and productive conversation.

a reply to: amazing

So let's have a discussion about mental illness that doesn't revolve around any restrictions.

But the discussion involves these people being restricted for legal purchase, since the topic is shooting/killing. That's the point: Mental illness

Like Anti bullying measures that work, like early intervention of mental illness or problem behaviors, like more school councilors or nurses that could address some of these issues, like more federal money for mental health treatment.

How does that prevent them from purchasing? Treatment, counselors, etc is not prevention, it's treatment for an existing condition. Better regulation helps/prevents, those who might do harm: mental illness.

a reply to: amazing

I think many are just annoyed because it's like the "all lives matter" thing. Nobody on the right gave a crap about mental health until the NRA started pushing it to discourage any discussion of our gun culture.

For me personally, I don't want to avoid a discussion about mental health but it shouldn't be brought up as a distraction. If you want to discuss it, take a holistic approach and then you won't seem so agenda-oriented.

a reply to: amazing

Empathy and regard for others is one way to tackle bullying. But something most people miss is that kids who bully often do it to feel better about being miserable themselves for one reason or another.

Why I Bully

There are many reasons why a child picks on another child. After fifteen years of child therapy, I have started to see a pattern emerge. Bullies often have several of these traits (but not always):

Feelings of insecurity

Struggles academically

Has family stress, conflict and/or violence

Is socially awkward

Has a history of being bullied themselves

Has a history of not being socially accepted

Family member(s) pick on them

I know I mentioned empathy, but the hard truth with bullies is that they don't care if they hurt other kids. In fact, because they are hurting, they *want* to hurt other kids. They're the ones who need empathy, but they also need to be handled with strength because Kumbaya won't stop them.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Great point