Manafort lawyers file motion to dismiss all charges citing lack of authority / jurisdiction

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well make your bets now.

I'll bite.

My Prediction: This will fail.

I think Manafort's motion will be granted but like I said, both sides are going to appeal depending on which sides prevails in the motion. The fact Flynn's case took a downward turn for Mueller just lends more evidence to Manafort's argument.

Mueller handed over all of the Michael Flynn materials to a Judge today.
saraacarter.com...
Good news for U.S. war hero Flynn?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Do your job right and you make a good case that is prosecutable.

Exactly! I don't think anyone of us will argue Manafort has committed crimes, it's how they found them. They broke the law to find the crime. if it's allowed, it sets a precedent.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well make your bets now.

I'll bite.

My Prediction: This will fail.

I've actually followed it and I think Manafort has a pretty good shot at a motion to dismiss.

Especially now that the SC is apparently just trying to keep something, ANYTHING going to provide talking points for the 18 elections.

Most Americans are tired of the show. It hasn't produced anything that it was put together to look for but... well, anything actually except... a few hundred Russian bots that were not tied to the campaign?

I mean, they are re-leaking their older leaks at this point to keep relevant.

Let's see where the IG report goes.

Oh no....your post just made me think.....do you think they are going to hold off on releasing the IG report until after the 2018 elections?? With the crap we've found out about all of these assholes this year, I would not be surprised in the SLIGHTEST if that's what happens. Have we heard any talk about the IG report lately? Seems mention of it has gone quiet. Uh oh.

IG report is scheduled to be released mid April (the original time estimate that was given). Director Wray requested the IG expedite his report dealing with McCabe.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

And people with millions of dollars tend to hire lawyers that know what they are doing.

Flynn wasn't rich, he had to concede.

Don't get me wrong, Manafort is scum and should go down, but legally. His lawyers have a major case for dismissal, possibly with prejudice.

Yup. Agree that they steam rolled Flynn. But he was a jerk, and made Army officers look like jerks.

He got caught, and had to roll.

a reply to: KansasGirl

Not a bad theory.

My theory is Mueller and his team, along with Democrats, know there is no collusion and are doing everything they can to keep the russia bs in the news up to the midterms.

They are doing nothing but throwing sh*t against a wall in hopes something will stick.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well make your bets now.

I'll bite.

My Prediction: This will fail.

I think Manafort's motion will be granted but like I said, both sides are going to appeal depending on which sides prevails in the motion. The fact Flynn's case took a downward turn for Mueller just lends more evidence to Manafort's argument.

Mueller handed over all of the Michael Flynn materials to a Judge today.
saraacarter.com...
Good news for U.S. war hero Flynn?

I just saw that.. The timing is interesting. Flynn's disclosure comes out on the same day Manaforts lawyers file their motion.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

It seems like you are rooting for him. Why?

Not so much for Manafort but the rule of law and equality under the law. If a prosecutor has a criminal case then file charges and go from there. You dont decline to prosecute only to change your mind decades later because its politically convenient.

Law Enforcement and Prosecutors (at all levels of government) have powerful tools they can use to investigate and prosecute. When those tools are abused I would rather see a criminal walk free than set a dangerous precedent that violating someones constitutional rights, federal law and FBI/DOJ procedures is ok because we "think" the suspect is guilty.

I have no tolerance for criminals however I have even less for government agencies / departments who violate the very laws they are entrusted to enforce and prosecute. In those situations my general default position is to error on the sides of the suspect.

Do your job right and you make a good case that is prosecutable.

It is as simple as that. The Constitution comes first.

I agree 100%. Nice summary of good thinking.

Thanks for taking the time to put those thoughts down.

ETA star for being polite and walking me through your thoughts.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well make your bets now.

I'll bite.

My Prediction: This will fail.

I've actually followed it and I think Manafort has a pretty good shot at a motion to dismiss.

Especially now that the SC is apparently just trying to keep something, ANYTHING going to provide talking points for the 18 elections.

Most Americans are tired of the show. It hasn't produced anything that it was put together to look for but... well, anything actually except... a few hundred Russian bots that were not tied to the campaign?

I mean, they are re-leaking their older leaks at this point to keep relevant.

Let's see where the IG report goes.

Oh no....your post just made me think.....do you think they are going to hold off on releasing the IG report until after the 2018 elections?? With the crap we've found out about all of these assholes this year, I would not be surprised in the SLIGHTEST if that's what happens. Have we heard any talk about the IG report lately? Seems mention of it has gone quiet. Uh oh.

IG report is scheduled to be released mid April (the original time estimate that was given). Director Wray requested the IG expedite his report dealing with McCabe.

True. I still wouldn't be surprised if something were to "happen" to delay its release. And I do NOT trust Wray anyway.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: KansasGirl

Not a bad theory.

My theory is Mueller and his team, along with Democrats, know there is no collusion and are doing everything they can to keep the russia bs in the news up to the midterms.

They are doing nothing but throwing sh*t against a wall in hopes something will stick.

I totally agree. And it's absolutely maddening that we are letting this stuff happen. We've guven these people way too much power. We've been apathetic and lazy and asleep for so long that now it's just the norm for our entire system to be criminally handled.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well make your bets now.

I'll bite.

My Prediction: This will fail.

I've actually followed it and I think Manafort has a pretty good shot at a motion to dismiss.

Especially now that the SC is apparently just trying to keep something, ANYTHING going to provide talking points for the 18 elections.

Most Americans are tired of the show. It hasn't produced anything that it was put together to look for but... well, anything actually except... a few hundred Russian bots that were not tied to the campaign?

I mean, they are re-leaking their older leaks at this point to keep relevant.

Let's see where the IG report goes.

Oh no....your post just made me think.....do you think they are going to hold off on releasing the IG report until after the 2018 elections?? With the crap we've found out about all of these assholes this year, I would not be surprised in the SLIGHTEST if that's what happens. Have we heard any talk about the IG report lately? Seems mention of it has gone quiet. Uh oh.

They were about to release, then went aback and are re-questioning some witnesses to tie up some loose ends, the story is.

I doubt it will be much longer.

After all, the Repubs need that second SC going before the primaries...

Hmmmmmmm, see that worries me, the part about them being "just about to release" and then pulling back and having to "requestion" some folks. How many more times are they going to almost release it?

The only hope there is what you said, that the Repubs need it out before the primaries. I hope you're right!

a reply to: DogStarIn1066
I have a question for you.

If Manafort is found guilty of his charges and a separate investigation shows that the SC violated the law and his jurisdiction, what would be your opinion of that circumstance?

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: DogStarIn1066
I have a question for you.

If Manafort is found guilty of his charges and a separate investigation shows that the SC violated the law and his jurisdiction, what would be your opinion of that circumstance?

The motion to dismiss will be dealt with first since it is an administrative motion. IF the judge rules against Manafort and he is found guilty, and later on new evidence comes up that shows the SC violated a law / procedure / constitutional rights / brady violations / giglio violations etc etc then Manafort can file a motion to have his conviction thrown out.

The ability of the government to refile charges depends on the legal argument made by the defendant and the judges ruling (with prejudice = cant refile charges since double jeopardy is attached or without prejudice = the government can refile the charges).

I know your question was not directed at me so my bad if you were going for a personal opinion of the other poster or if you were asking about the legalities involved.

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

It seems like you are rooting for him. Why?

Not so much for Manafort but the rule of law and equality under the law. If a prosecutor has a criminal case then file charges and go from there. You dont decline to prosecute only to change your mind decades later because its politically convenient.

Law Enforcement and Prosecutors (at all levels of government) have powerful tools they can use to investigate and prosecute. When those tools are abused I would rather see a criminal walk free than set a dangerous precedent that violating someones constitutional rights, federal law and FBI/DOJ procedures is ok because we "think" the suspect is guilty.

I have no tolerance for criminals however I have even less for government agencies / departments who violate the very laws they are entrusted to enforce and prosecute. In those situations my general default position is to error on the sides of the suspect.

Do your job right and you make a good case that is prosecutable.

It is as simple as that. The Constitution comes first.

I agree 100%. Nice summary of good thinking.

Thanks for taking the time to put those thoughts down.

ETA star for being polite and walking me through your thoughts.

No problem and you are welcome.

I would rather people ask questions than just assume.

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well make your bets now.

I'll bite.

My Prediction: This will fail.

Just like his first one right? Was going to be shot down right out of the gate.

Well, that actually didn't happen though. It was granted and transferred to the initial court if I remember right.

Prosecutors with grand juries tend to get convictions. Mueller has a 95% conviction rate.

Anyone want to bet ?

Check his record out...he may have a 95% conviction rate, but he is known to put innocent people in jail...and has cost the US government million$ in lawsuits when they are aquitted.

He is not about the law, he is about the conviction.

originally posted by: theatreboy

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Well make your bets now.

I'll bite.

My Prediction: This will fail.

Just like his first one right? Was going to be shot down right out of the gate.

Well, that actually didn't happen though. It was granted and transferred to the initial court if I remember right.

Prosecutors with grand juries tend to get convictions. Mueller has a 95% conviction rate.

Anyone want to bet ?

Check his record out...he may have a 95% conviction rate, but he is known to put innocent people in jail...and has cost the US government million$ in lawsuits when they are aquitted.

He is not about the law, he is about the conviction.

Dont forget a few of Mueller's prosecutors have themselves gotten in trouble for the way they conducted certain prosecutions. A few of which saw the verdict set aside or overturned for violations of the law / DOJ procedures.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Appreciate the response, but yeah, I was wondering that users opinion on that circumstance. They seem to be the type that feels Manafort should go down no matter what. If he goes down, I'm good with it. He's a slimy weasel, but like you said, do it right.

If the SC overstepped his boundary (really seems like he has given all the evidence presented), then I want to see Manafort walk. You don't get to break the law to enforce the law.

a reply to: Xcathdra

This is exceptionally interesting and I have been wondering if something like this would come down the pike eventually.

I love this part of the judicial system, but at the same time, I despise it: Combing through the details and exact wording to find that there may have been a mistake made that negates an entire investigation.

When I was a paralegal for prosecution, this is one thing that they loved about me--my ability to comb through the details of court rules and processes to ensure that they didn't miss something, and I found quite a few missed things in my tenure in that job.

I must say that, at first read-through, the lawsuit has merit, but I wonder if that merit will be honored in a court of law. This has very far-reaching effects since this has gone on so long, and would taint any future cases based on any evidence found and compiled by the special counsel.

As with all cases, I hope that the courts do the right thing in this regard, which seems like dropping the charges against Manafort, unfortunately (my opinion...do the crime, do the time). But we'll see where this leads.

But again, I'm glad to see something like this come about, not because I don't think that investigations like this shouldn't be happening, but because I have felt that this investigation exceeded its scope long ago, and that it was purposefully designed by Rod Rosenstein to be a fishing expedition that would drag on for years, keeping the Trump presidency ensnared in controversy for at least the totality of his first term.

I can't call this anything less than an abuse of the justice system.

a reply to: Xcathdra

www.detroitnews.com...


Civil case thrown out..

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Xcathdra

www.detroitnews.com...


Civil case thrown out..

Long story short -
The judge told him he cant use his civil case to interfere in the criminal case and he needs to go after the points/motions/issues/etc raised in his civil case to the criminal case.

Criminal motions are still active and pending.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Xcathdra

www.detroitnews.com...


Civil case thrown out..

Long story short -
The judge told him he cant use his civil case to interfere in the criminal case and he needs to go after the points/motions/issues/etc raised in his civil case to the criminal case.

Criminal motions are still active and pending.

I guess you forgot you argued tooth and nail that wasn't the case.