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That is compare scripture with scripture. Now many say it is archaic to do so but you will allow it to be done in today’s sciences, They allow for the comparison of the age of rock to determine the age of a fossil in it, and the age of the fossil to determine the age of the rock that encases the fossil. While calling it being done in the Bible as circular logic but calling it science when they do the same in dating rocks and fossils.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Notice the use of the English not need to got to the Greek or Hebrew, just study the English and you will see truths.
Jos 18:1 ¶ And the whole congregation of the children of Israel assembled together at Shiloh, and set up the tabernacle of the congregation there. And the land was subdued before them.
1Sam 1:3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the LORD of hosts in Shiloh.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
(look at the first uses of the word sign and sign and you will see it is all connected to Israel. 2) it was the person doing the casting out that was to be fasting and prayer not the victim of demon possession.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
and 3) The verse is not for the church today which means this lady and her followers privately interpreted the scriptures which it is said that some do to their own destruction.
Mr 9:28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
So studying not just context but meaning and answering the questions asked above. While it is tempting to go to commentaries ad to other resources I encourage my student not to use anything out side the Bible unless needed. Like in another thread I was asked about god being benevolent. The word is not found in the Bible so I resorted to Webter's 1828 dictionary once we found the sub-meanings was kind and loving we were able to find lots of verses that showed God is kind and loving (a lot more that i could actually list out int he reply).
2Pe 1:19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
So when is it OK for God to punish people?
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Woodcarver
he doesn't punish on the basis of believing on him. You really need to read the Bible more to understand what it is that you believe on and why there is punishment at all. see thread www.abovetopsecret.com...
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Alright no let’s move on to the rule of first mention.
This rule means that when something is first mentioned than it is important to note it and seek out its meaning. So for a quick understanding of first mention let’s first use a phrase found in Gen 1:2 “. . . Without form and void” It is not clear in that verse why it is that way, which doesn’t make sense seeing God in his character of perfection would never create something incomplete or imperfect. If he did then he is not a God to follow.
However I will use the rule of comparing spiritual things to spiritual, that is scripture with scripture and this is what we learn. We will have to take the only other quote of “without form and void” and use it to see what the phrase may mean that is to get a meaning for without form and void. That is correct I identified the figure of speech as a phrase. It is not a metaphor it is an actual fact of a state therefore a phrase about that thing in Gen :2 it is the earth.
Now to understand the cross reference in Jeremiah 4:23 we will need to look not just at the verse but the whole section, chapter and book. The book is about the casting out of Judah from the Jerusalem via Nebuchadnezzar, the chapter is both a plea for all of Israel to return to the LORD. Verse 3 and 5 both narrow the location to Jerusalem. Verse 20 speaks of God’s tents and curtains, that is the temple in Jerusalem. Please note when Samuel in the wilderness he called the tent/tabernacle a temple which was located in ShilohNotice the use of the English not need to got to the Greek or Hebrew, just study the English and you will see truths.
Jos 18:1 ¶ And the whole congregation of the children of Israel assembled together at Shiloh, and set up the tabernacle of the congregation there. And the land was subdued before them.
1Sam 1:3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the LORD of hosts in Shiloh.
Sorry I got off track a little just o show some things that will pop up when you study. So the first use of “Without form and void” can be defined by the context of Jeremiah 4, the city of Jerusalem which had been built by the Jews and inhabited had a temple built by Solomon, and was being prophesied as being “without form and void:. So now we have our meaning in Genesis 1:2 the earth had been inhabited before Genesis 1:2 but by whom and for how long.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
You see I asked questions and the Bible does not speak much about it
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
but the supposition is Lucifer was given a crown and a throne which he built on the earth
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So using the law of first mention of a spiritual thing (scriptures) and comparing it to spiritual (scriptures) we were able to define what it meant by :without form and void.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
The original was destroyed but only on the surface the earth was still there and God decided in six days to do a new work on the earth.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Not sure what you mean by the horror story.
I read a very horrifying story of a pastor lady ...
Now while many feel that Mt Horeb and Mt Sinai are the same mountain. But in some older unedited maps show Mt Horeb to be at the edge of the original Israel, Edom and Egypt (which is the Arabian peninsula). They call it mount Hor today so many don't make the connection, But if you compare that directive phrase with the same one used in
Ex 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
Again this is land that God is calling holy and it is the land of Israel.
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
EasternShadow
Are you a Christian or a Jew if you don't mind my asking.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
You seem to misunderstood I point out there are questions to be asked and I lay out what types of Quesions. Also please understand this is not a complete lesson in how to study the Bible using those questions.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
the What does "without form and void" mean is not actually found in Gen 1:2 and if that were the only meaning we could come up with all sorts of conclusions so the what is he meaning question is answered by going to the only other Bible reference available to understand it and that is in Jer 4 Then I just went through some of the context. If you wonder why Jeremiah is saying what he is saying then go back and start and Duet and read through to Jeremiah (you can skip the wisdom books of Psalms through Song of Solomon to save time.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Supposition, also known as an idea based on Biblical references and then putting them into the correct divisional time period is a correct procedure of studying the word of Truth.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Once I have the two verses together compared then I can understand the meaning. i.e. means that something that was completed was destroyed. Why was the earth without form and void in between Gen1:1 and Gen 1:2 is that was because iniquity was found in Lucifer and he and his angles along with the throne which Lucifer was trying to exalt Isa 14:12-13. What was without form and void in Jeremiah 4 was the city of Jerusalem after it was destroyed.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So you see even without using the 7W's and the H, I as able to define the meaning of the phrase "without form and void". I first identified the figure of speech by asking the question "what is the figure of speech?"
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Using the context of Genesis 1, I found it was not a metaphor, it was not a allegory, it was not one of the other 214 figures of Speech, it was a very simple form of speech known as a "descriptive phrase". Then I searched to see if the phrase was ever used again.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
So no, a supposition can create a true teaching if it can be defined and support with Biblical facts. But I do agree with you that if done without rightly dividing and having proper context and answers to study questions, then yes it is dangerous.
originally posted by: DISRAELI
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Not sure what you mean by the horror story.
I was quoting your own expression;
I read a very horrifying story of a pastor lady ...
That's the story I was talking about, of a misinterpretation apparently based on the English translation.
Admitting all the difficulties of the translation process, the translators of the AV were not free from them. They, too, had to acquire understanding of the original languages from books. In the case of New Testament Greek, the knowledge was learned by the Renaissance scholars from the Greeks of the Byzantine empire, who still spoke a version of it.
originally posted by: EasternShadow
Yes I completely agree. Some people don't even know the word Lord in English translations is not the word for Hebrew's YHWH. Instead, it is Greek's Adonis. And this has cause a lot of confusion that some people even claimed god's revealed name YHWH, is Satan's name.
originally posted by: DISRAELI
Apparently the letters were pronounced as ADONAI, which comes from ADON and means "my lord".
The name ADONIS probably also derives from ADON.
In the New Testament, "Lord" translates KURIOS, which is a broader version of "Lord", extending down to "master" (the unjust steward's employer is his KURIOS).