Japan Planning on Ordering F-35Bs, a Multipurpose Aircraft Carrier

a reply to: intrptr

What are we doing to them with our carriers?

China is a rising power. Their hope is to be able to intervene in world affairs like we do. This will cause conflict between us more than today. We are the incumbent. They are the challenger. It is the nature of great powers to clash and compete with one another. This is a cycle that goes back to Ancient Egypt.

The muddle headed keep thinking China will be different. It won't be. It wasn't in ancient times. It wasn't even just prior to the modern era. It even intervened or attempted to with its neighbors more than once in the last 50 years. The future resembles the past as much as water resembles water.

And a regime that crushed and ground up student protestors with tanks is not one I wish to have carriers.

Speaking of hypocrisy, btw!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: anzha

What are we doing to them with our carriers?

What do carriers 'do' ?

They aren't delivering food packages... (rolls eyes)

a reply to: intrptr

Crisis" is fabricated, used as the excuse to aggressively occupy oceans on the other side of the planet far from home to justify our threatening posture, using nuclear armed aircraft carrier strike groups, that are the real crisis as far as eastern Pacific nationsl like China are concerned.

But if they are so useless then why is China worried?

Except, way over there, thats their backyard, not ours.

Thats called defensive posturing.

As you said:

"There is no other purpose for a carrier than to project force. "

And as far as "defensive posturing" goes:

"defensive posturing" to "defend" China's aggressive claims to the SCS. Likewise, I'm sure Russia was merely "defending" itself when it decided to annex Crimea. And the United States was "defending" itself from weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

And as far as "backyard" goes, backyard usually refers to part of a property, behind the house. Usually doesn't refer to the street in front of the house that everyone can use or as I like to call it "International Waters".

So yes, China is "defending" "its" (implies ownership) "backyard".

Korean nuclear deterrent is being developed to counter that specific threat.

I like how you call DPRK "Korea".

Majority/all of nuclear capable missiles that DPRK has are useless against carriers.

Build them, the 'enemy' knows bobbing cork technology is obsolete.

Is that why according to your narrative they are creating a crisis for China?

"Crisis" is fabricated, used as the excuse to aggressively occupy oceans on the other side of the planet far from home to justify our threatening posture, using nuclear armed aircraft carrier strike groups, that are the real crisis as far as eastern Pacific nationsl like China are concerned.

This thread is about Japans aircraft carriers. The carriers that Japan will be building will be used (according to your terminology) in Japans "backyard". I struggle to see the relevance of mentioning US aircraft carriers.

US doesn't have claims to the international water near china, china does.

We been down this road before. Y'all crying crisis because China has a carrier... pfft.

Yes and you lost that time. So why do you keep bringing it up?

Nobody is calling it a crisis because China has a carrier. People are calling it a security crisis because China has more than doubled its defense spending in less than 10 years with no sign of stopping and may attempt to enforce illegitimate claims in the SCS. China also wants to absorb Republic Of China, maybe by force. And the United States still wants to retain its hegemony in the region and has been extremely aggressive to regimes such as DPRK in the past, as a result, DPRK has obtained nukes. Japans guarantor of security, the US, has its influence waning in the region and its current president is an incompetent buffoon.

If you run an island country in close proximity to all this, why wouldn't you increase defense spending? Why wouldn't you build carriers? Or in your view, is everyone except Japan allowed to build carriers?

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

If they were just building a few carriers, as I have said multiple times, then it wouldn't be a big deal. They are building NUCLEAR carriers and all the replenishing ships they need to have a fleet that can operate anywhere in the world.

That. is. not. defensive.

When China starts doing Blue Water Ops. call me, until then I don't care.

By the way, submarines can project power. Ask Japan.

a reply to: JIMC5499

China does blue water ops.

a reply to: C0bzz

And as far as "defensive posturing" goes:

"defensive posturing" to "defend" China's aggressive claims to the SCS

Noted use of acronym "SCS" instead of spelling it out, South China Sea. What are you hiding behind, their backyard?

China sea, not American Sea. Lol. Its theirs, not ours.

Unless you consider its the US meddling in their "Region" another euphemism describing western duality.

a reply to: intrptr

Why is the South China Sea China's?

Editing to expound.

The South China Sea is bounded by several countries: China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia.

All states along the periphery have claim out to 200 nm for their economic exclusion zones under international law. Where that boundary overlaps, its supposed to be, iirc, drawn half way between the two states' land borders. If there are inhabited islands, those count. Everything between is supposed to be governed by the laws of the sea.

There are some exceptions and nuances, as I am making this a short post (The guano act would be wildly suspect under international law today).

So.

So, again, why does China have a claim on the South China Sea that makes it Chinese and not Vietnamese Malay, Filippino or Indonesian?

a reply to: C0bzz

Do they? I don't know if we have the same definition for "blue water ops". To me it is where the ship is out so far that the aircraft do not have the range to divert to a land base and no external tanker support. Everything that I have read has China's carrriers with in range of land when they are doing flight ops.

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

Why is the South China Sea China's?

Who put uS in charge?

a reply to: intrptr

There is international law. China is a party to the UN Conventions of the laws of the sea. China's claims and actions violate that law. China is conducting a blatant land, erm, grab because the locals cannot resist.

The US is not in charge, not in a legal sense. We are the current world hegemon. We are supporting the locals because in one case they are an ally. In others, it has been the traditional stance of the US to build a coalition to restrain a rival power. China is that rival power.

Your comment stating 'who put the US in charge' is whataboutism.

a reply to: anzha

There is international law.

US obeys International Law?

US only holds up the law to others, freely violating it whenever it pleases. Blaming others who have done nothing, from their "American Exceptionalism" Pulpit.


In that regard, the US Empire is no better than any other empire from history.

I hear Chicken Little yelling in the background...

a reply to: intrptr

You have still not answered my question.

Why is the South China Sea China's?

Didn't UNCLOS rule against Chinese territorial claims when the Philippines brought suit just a year or two ago? Should Japan, Vietnam, the Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, etc, all surrender their claims and bow to Chinese hegemony just because they are bigger? Isn't that exactly what you're accusing the US of? This is a pretzel conversation if ever there was one.

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

You have still not answered my question.

Why is the South China Sea China's?

Whats in the south china sea?

Be honest...

a reply to: intrptr

Oil. Fishing. Probably mineral deposits.

However, that doesn't explain why it is CHINA'S.

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

Oil. Fishing. Probably mineral deposits.

However, that doesn't explain why it is CHINA'S.

Take down every Big Oil platform in the worlds oceans then.

Oh, thats why.

Big Oil wants it all.

a reply to: intrptr

This is pure avoidance.

WHY IS IT CHINA'S?

Just answer the question.

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

This is pure avoidance.

WHY IS IT CHINA'S?

Just answer the question.

Says Master sidestep.
When you address one single counter point I have made so far.

a reply to: intrptr

I am trying to address this one right now. Why is the South China Sea China's? You made this claim. I am not asking about US belief in it. I am asking you pointedly about one of your major points. You stated it belongs to China. WHY? Defend that and we can move on.

a reply to: anzha

I am trying to address this one right now.

You never address why the US is threatening other nations interests, so far from home.