Why does the left support World Government?

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: olaru12
...If the left is so socialist; why do so many of us own businesses and work so hard in the capitalistic system to provide for our families and buy stuff...

Because the other defining factor of the left is hypocrisy.

Democrats aren't leftists. Leftist means socialist or communist, not American Democratic Party. On war and economics the dem party is actually center right.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: amfirst1

Bigger is better. If you think gov't is good, then big gov't is better and one world gov't is the best.

Why do republicans and most conservatives support big military and strong police? I hope people realize that's "big government" too. Only the libertarians are consistent on this topic.

Because history has shown through the past 5000 years that a country / empire will cease to exist or become conquered by their neighbors if they don't have a technological superiority of their military.

Roman empire could dominate the Mediterranean so long as their trimerenes were the heaviest and strongest in order to defend merchant ships. Once they lost that advantage, they got pushed back. Same with World War I and II.
Chinese built the Great Walls which helped contain raiders.

So then you get into a primary contradiction of conservatves. the question is if big gov is necessary for a certain issue due to overwhelming evidence, history, or data.

Well, that's also exactly why liberals and scientists argue for environmental regulations, as an example. So really it's what does the evidence say.

History and evidence says that if you don't defend your country, it will be conquered by people who don't respect your country.

Now, if this is true than the conservative "Muh small government" not only is a fallacy but intellectually dishonest.

No, it means you are overthinking the issues and have convinced yourself into a self-congratulatory pseudo-epiphany.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: amfirst1

Bigger is better. If you think gov't is good, then big gov't is better and one world gov't is the best.

Why do republicans and most conservatives support big military and strong police? I hope people realize that's "big government" too. Only the libertarians are consistent on this topic.

Because history has shown through the past 5000 years that a country / empire will cease to exist or become conquered by their neighbors if they don't have a technological superiority of their military.

Roman empire could dominate the Mediterranean so long as their trimerenes were the heaviest and strongest in order to defend merchant ships. Once they lost that advantage, they got pushed back. Same with World War I and II.
Chinese built the Great Walls which helped contain raiders.

So then you get into a primary contradiction of conservatves. the question is if big gov is necessary for a certain issue due to overwhelming evidence, history, or data.

Well, that's also exactly why liberals and scientists argue for environmental regulations, as an example. So really it's what does the evidence say.

History and evidence says that if you don't defend your country, it will be conquered by people who don't respect your country.

Now, if this is true than the conservative "Muh small government" not only is a fallacy but intellectually dishonest.

No, it means you are overthinking the issues and have convinced yourself into a self-congratulatory pseudo-epiphany.

No it just means you haven't considered that double standard nor the gap in your logic. It's right there.

It's also pretty basic analysis, not an "ephiphany." Big and strong military as well as projection of power abroad is big government. So, either admit that it can be necessary when situations or evidence demand, OR please start calling as the libertarians do for a reduction in foreign excursions, wars, etc. There are only two choices available to you..

Finally please open a history book. Since the 50's our military and intelligence agencies have gone far beyond just defending our country. You are supporting actions that violate every tenet conservatives claim to support: God given freedom that no government can take away (including the US abroad), democracy (our gov and military have overthrown democracies and installed dictators), national sovereignty (see above), and freedom from democide and no due process (assassinations, drone attacks, torture, and detainment without process). That, is what you are supporting, witting or not.

Hence, the only big government you appear to support, is in fact, tyrannical and everything conservatives claim to hate.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: olaru12
...If the left is so socialist; why do so many of us own businesses and work so hard in the capitalistic system to provide for our families and buy stuff...

Because the other defining factor of the left is hypocrisy.

Democrats aren't leftists. Leftist means socialist or communist, not American Democratic Party. On war and economics the dem party is actually center right.

Have you read the platform of the Democrat party lately? It's nothing but promoting a nebulous community over the individual, socializing what have always been private, and promoting the fallacy of social justice instead of equality under the law. Might as well have been written by socialist/communist dictators.

Sheesh.

a reply to: amfirst1

I will probably get burned at the stake for broad-stroking this response, but, I honestly don't think they know what socialism really is and what will happen if we succumb to it. I believe it was Stalin who said socialism would take the United States but it would happen in the name of liberalism. After seeing interviews with liberals in the streets who literally had no idea what socialism was but were protesting for it anyway I have to believe he was right.

I went to a very liberal site recently and there was a post there that said we should elect biden with obama as vp and then we could fix this country. I asked why that pair didn't fix the country the first time and I was called a nazi hater and my post was deleted. Rabid hatred and the unwillingness to acknowledge the truth while blindly demanding socialism without fully understanding what it is will not save this country.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: olaru12
...If the left is so socialist; why do so many of us own businesses and work so hard in the capitalistic system to provide for our families and buy stuff...

Because the other defining factor of the left is hypocrisy.

Democrats aren't leftists. Leftist means socialist or communist, not American Democratic Party. On war and economics the dem party is actually center right.

Have you read the platform of the Democrat party lately? It's nothing but promoting a nebulous community over the individual, socializing what have always been private, and promoting the fallacy of social justice instead of equality under the law. Might as well have been written by socialist/communist dictators.

Sheesh.

Pretty hyperbolic. I agree that identity politics has elements of Marxism and hyper collectivism, which I don't like. This is why I say the only thing left about the Dems now days is identity politics.
However, again, on economics and war the Democratic Party is NOT leftist. And, many actual communists despise the Dems and sjws.

Both parties are virtually owned by wall st and corporate donors.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: amfirst1

Bigger is better. If you think gov't is good, then big gov't is better and one world gov't is the best.

Why do republicans and most conservatives support big military and strong police? I hope people realize that's "big government" too. Only the libertarians are consistent on this topic.

Because history has shown through the past 5000 years that a country / empire will cease to exist or become conquered by their neighbors if they don't have a technological superiority of their military.

Roman empire could dominate the Mediterranean so long as their trimerenes were the heaviest and strongest in order to defend merchant ships. Once they lost that advantage, they got pushed back. Same with World War I and II.
Chinese built the Great Walls which helped contain raiders.

So then you get into a primary contradiction of conservatves. the question is if big gov is necessary for a certain issue due to overwhelming evidence, history, or data.

Well, that's also exactly why liberals and scientists argue for environmental regulations, as an example. So really it's what does the evidence say.

History and evidence says that if you don't defend your country, it will be conquered by people who don't respect your country.

Now, if this is true than the conservative "Muh small government" not only is a fallacy but intellectually dishonest.

No, it means you are overthinking the issues and have convinced yourself into a self-congratulatory pseudo-epiphany.

No it just means you haven't considered that double standard nor the fact out the gap in your logic. It's right there.

It's also pretty basic analysis, not an "ephiphany." Big and strong military as well as projection of power abroad is big government. So, either admit that it can be necessary when situations or evidence demand, OR please start calling as the libertarians do for a reduction in foreign excursions, wars, etc. There are only two choices available to you..

Defense of the nation is a constitutional responsibility of the federal government.

I have already said we should draw down our presence in other countries that can afford to defend themselves.

Like I said: you appear to have achieved some type of pseudo-epiphany, while the rest of us are rolling our eyes.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: amfirst1

I will probably get burned at the stake for broad-stroking this response, but, I honestly don't think they know what socialism really is and what will happen if we succumb to it.

Seen pictures of Venezuela lately?

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
However, again, on economics and war the Democratic Party is NOT leftist. And, many actual communists despise the Dems and sjws.

*Shrug* Nazis and Communists despised each other too. Nothing new there. Leftists tend to eat their own.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: amfirst1

Bigger is better. If you think gov't is good, then big gov't is better and one world gov't is the best.

Why do republicans and most conservatives support big military and strong police? I hope people realize that's "big government" too. Only the libertarians are consistent on this topic.

Because history has shown through the past 5000 years that a country / empire will cease to exist or become conquered by their neighbors if they don't have a technological superiority of their military.

Roman empire could dominate the Mediterranean so long as their trimerenes were the heaviest and strongest in order to defend merchant ships. Once they lost that advantage, they got pushed back. Same with World War I and II.
Chinese built the Great Walls which helped contain raiders.

So then you get into a primary contradiction of conservatves. the question is if big gov is necessary for a certain issue due to overwhelming evidence, history, or data.

Well, that's also exactly why liberals and scientists argue for environmental regulations, as an example. So really it's what does the evidence say.

History and evidence says that if you don't defend your country, it will be conquered by people who don't respect your country.

Now, if this is true than the conservative "Muh small government" not only is a fallacy but intellectually dishonest.

No, it means you are overthinking the issues and have convinced yourself into a self-congratulatory pseudo-epiphany.

No it just means you haven't considered that double standard nor the fact out the gap in your logic. It's right there.

It's also pretty basic analysis, not an "ephiphany." Big and strong military as well as projection of power abroad is big government. So, either admit that it can be necessary when situations or evidence demand, OR please start calling as the libertarians do for a reduction in foreign excursions, wars, etc. There are only two choices available to you..

Defense of the nation is a constitutional responsibility of the federal government.

I have already said we should draw down our presence in other countries that can afford to defend themselves.

Like I said: you appear to have achieved some type of pseudo-epiphany, while the rest of us are rolling our eyes.

No, that's not what most republicans advocate for. Remember, I was talking about general conservatives, not you. You responded to my general point. This isn't about you.

Republicans and especially leaders have regularly supported militarism and imperialism abroad. Our military is actually oppressing other countries regularly, not defending us. So, you seem to be avoiding my point about that inherent hypocrisy by republicans. It's big government, and the worst type.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
However, again, on economics and war the Democratic Party is NOT leftist. And, many actual communists despise the Dems and sjws.

*Shrug* Nazis and Communists despised each other too. Nothing new there. Leftists tend to eat their own.

Only conservatives in the US think Dems are real leftists.

I bet you can't lay out regarding economics how they are left wing.

How about wars and foreign policy? Not left wing.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
However, again, on economics and war the Democratic Party is NOT leftist. And, many actual communists despise the Dems and sjws.

*Shrug* Nazis and Communists despised each other too. Nothing new there. Leftists tend to eat their own.

no, they despise Dems because Dems support neo liberal, right wing economic deregulation, pro wall st policies, etc. Not only that, but the Dems like the right support US empire and militarism, which again, actual leftists are against.

This is getting boring.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
That's what I'm saying. They claim they are against big, intrusive, tyrannical government.
They claim they are for national sovereignty, freedom, etc.

Yet, they enthusiastically applaud and are apologists for the US military invading, bombing, and regime changing weaker countries across the world. Not only that, often we've overthrown democracies and installed dictatorships. It's absurd. Granted, many Dems are apologists too. And, many Americans are really poorly educated on foreign policy and history.

'Murica

Claims, just like the Bush's claim to be 'conservatives'. We know better in practice. They support marxism and their leaders representing their interest in America over the citizens of America.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
That's what I'm saying. They claim they are against big, intrusive, tyrannical government.
They claim they are for national sovereignty, freedom, etc.

Yet, they enthusiastically applaud and are apologists for the US military invading, bombing, and regime changing weaker countries across the world. Not only that, often we've overthrown democracies and installed dictatorships. It's absurd. Granted, many Dems are apologists too. And, many Americans are really poorly educated on foreign policy and history.

'Murica

Claims, just like the Bush's claim to be 'conservatives'. We know better in practice. They support marxism and their leaders representing their interest in America over the citizens of America.

I can believe that many of the leadership on both sides lie. However, that still doesn't negate the hypocrisy of rank and file republicans supporting that militarism and then claiming they don't like big gov, and using big gov as an aspersion cast on liberals.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
It is very interesting and curious. They usually run in the same packs.

They prefer feelings over logic. They prefer centralized control over individual freedom. They do not appreciate neither our constitution nor bill of rights. They think nationalism and states rights are things of the past that have no meaning anymore. They think that by changing how a person thinks and feels, they can change humanity. They seem to believe in the never ending lies of our central government, mainstream academia and MSM. They always tend to place full responsibility on a person speaking words instead of the person hearing them. They rail against this reality and the simple rules of this existence.

There maybe different flavors of these people, but the underlying theme is always the same. I wish I understood it better. They seem to shy away from personal responsibility and accountability, always blaming others for their own feelings. They seem to hide from the truth, instead preferring comforting lies.

This goes far beyond politics and worldly events. It is the battle between tyranny versus freedom. It does't appear to be tied to intelligence or the ability to recite what others want to hear, but seems to be the difference in being confident in yourself compared to always seeking validation from others. It is almost like they have no internal self worth and are always trying to conform.

I would almost say it is a property of the soul and not upbringing.

This is one of the great questions of this existence.

See, when people who aren't "leftists" start to explain how leftists think, it leaves quite a lot to be desired. You say you want to understand how they think, but toss up these explanations like you have it figured out for them.

The so called liberal elite get called out for this all the time, as do the socio justice warriors, who I consider ridiculous.

I used to think I was about as far left as one could go, but the extremes on both sides are getting way out of hand.

I would be happy to explain how I feel about any subject.

And... as an olive branch to my right wing brothers, I will add my thoughts on what is positive about the right wing and also, as respectfully as I can, will share where I think the right wing starts to go too far.

Someone below this post says that maybe leftists don't care for their children future and someone else (both clearly more right wing folk) says that we do, we send them to private schools that no one else can afford.

I went to public schools my whole life. My family was middle class. My grandparents felt that the government was trying to take us in to war against communism not so much because they disagreed with the communist ideology, but because war was a profit machine. They felt that this is exactly what the communists wanted to do too. My grandfather was a well educated

Keep in mind this was during vietnam.

I wasn't alive yet when Kennedy was assassinated, but at the time lots of democrats considered right wing elements responsible for him getting taken out so they could keep the gas on the war pedal. LBJ was considered a closet republican when it came to foreign policy, but he used just enough "equal rights" rhetoric to still claim a democrat ID.

I'm not going to waste time writing out my entire history and how I came to support every issue (many of which democrats won't or don't have the spine to), but I am happy to share "what I am thinking" since that is the subject line of the thread.

I will write out several of the key issues I believe in:

Environmental policy - clean water and clean air are critical for survival. I find the pillaging of the environment for monetary reasons to be shortsighted and dangerous for our future. I also really enjoy nature and wild life. I'd prefer to keep large swaths of the worlds natural beauty pristine and thriving for our children. I tend to see that large corporations don't necessarily take good care of the planet, with oil and chemical spills, drugs that harm more than help, food that lacks any nutritional value etc. so I tend to vote for people who want to hold corporations accountable for their actions. (to be fair, both sides of the aisle can suck at this)

Equal rights: I believe everyone on this planet deserves the same level of respect and freedom. I am a spiritual but non religious person who believes in compassion and helping fellow brothers and sisters regardless of their race, sexual identity, religious beliefs or political affiliations. I believe governments and borders are human constructs that tend to limit our freedoms. But I am also aware that there isn't going to be any getting rid of government, so I tend towards voting for people who might share a more compassionate world view. (to be fair, both sides of the aisle can suck at this)

Anti War: I believe in trying to not kill each other. Violence begets violence and all that. I understand the need for protection and that not everyone shares the same view, which often makes the world a scary place. I believe that it is the job of those of us who prefer a more peaceful world to try and de-escalate conflicts and work towards peace. But I also believe (as any self respecting ATS member should) that there are forces at work that actively try to scare us in to fighting, both domestically against each other as well as across the globe with terrorist attacks and threats of weapons of mass destruction. (to be fair, both sides of the aisle are clearly owned by the military industrial complex, with weapon and war profiteering being one of the largest industries on the planet)

Fiscal issues: I believe that everyone deserves a living wage. People blame the "poor" for being lazy. I know plenty of people people with kids and mortgages (especially over the last couple of decades) who bust their ass and barely make enough money to enjoy a vacation and are under real threat losing everything if a big medical situation arises or the economy sinks again, which is most surely going to be orchestrated. The super rich do not always create new jobs, many of them sit on their wealth and don't put it back in to the economy. Warren Buffet made billions just last year... even if he bought a new car every hour, it wouldn't put a dent in his wealth AND would barely make a dent in the auto makers bottom line. We need people to mop floors and pick up trash, harvest apples and ring us up at convenience stores. I don't believe its fair to say those jobs need to get done but aren't worth a wage that allows them to not be scared to death of the next economic downturn. The income gap has been rising to ridiculous rates over the last few decades. I see the Koch brothers using their money to promote a false narrative that the poor are lazy and the rich deserve to control elections and even manipulate the poor in to promoting this narrative. (to be fair, both sides of the aisle tend to suck at finding tax and incentive laws that might even the playing field)

Gun control: I am not against guns... I feel like many on the right do, you won't get rid of guns in the hands of criminals by outlawing them. Same as the drug war, its a failure. That being said... I do think intelligent regulations and actually enforcing the laws could go a long way towards lowering the amount of gun deaths in the USA. I also believe that the gun deaths are a part of a much bigger issue. Namely that people are feeling frustrated, scared and alone, which pushes them to act out in sometimes violent ways. I believe this is either a side effect of the media manipulations that constantly spread fear or the desired effect of these manipulations. Fear of the economy crashing, fear of others, fear of bullies or governments… living under threat tends to keep people on edge. Most of the time this discussion devolves in to a black and white: gun free for all or zero guns. That is neither realistic nor rational. I believe that owning guns is an important right that is protected by the constitution for a reason.

Education: What happened to education? In my grandparents and parents time you could get a real education for a very reasonable cost where they taught you to think critically and more importantly, how to think for yourselves. Now schools are so underfunded teachers have to pay for supplies. Music classes are gone in many schools, along with many other beneficial skills. A dump electorate will be easier to control. We need to keep our children educated and hopeful for the future.

This leads me to another belief I have: I believe we all need to stick together. I believe “they” want us to fight each other instead of “them”. Divide and conquer has been the modus operandi since Roman times. I believe the intelligence agency funded media pushes our buttons to hate the conservative right wingers and conversely to hate the leftists. They talk about “them” like “they” are crazy for their beliefs till we start to believe them. We get further entrenched in our beliefs and start calling each other names and accusing each other of extremism… its a dangerous path, and not even one that we are creating. They are creating it for us.

Look at the left and right media situation critically and unemotionally. (I know, its hard, lol)… the fact is both sides are guilty of “fake news” and promoting views that polarize a left and right division, with little to no attempts at trying to understand each other.

I don’t believe in one world government if it means the bankers and ultra powerful enslave us on a hamster wheel of labor (though that seems to be the case regardless of how many governments we have). If one world government meant the end of war and a truly democratic system where we got to vote on how our local governments spent their revenues and where we all had good educations, good health care and opportunities to follow our dreams, then perhaps I’d be open to that. We can imagine a dark dystopian future where men in black body armor whip us in to submission and we all bow to big brother, or we can imagine a world where we collectively come together and create a more peaceful, just and uplifting environment. Its important, in my opinion… that we try to imagine and create the world we want to live in.

In my view, the deep state is what is trying to divide us by making us scared of each other, when in fact we have far more in common than that which makes us different. We all want a good life for ourselves and our families, as free from suffering as possible. We might have different perspectives on how to achieve that, but I don’t believe it has to tear us apart. Sometimes it takes time to understand each other, but its a lot easier if we take the time to listen than it is when we are making assumptions about each other.

I understand and respect aspects of the right wing. I understand and respect the rights view that we all need to be responsible adults and take care of ourselves first. I also believe that a rising tide raises all boats and that begins by us all being on top of the water, not barely keeping our head above it.

I understand and respect the rights view on a strong defense/military. But I also believe that the US has been trying to become a dominant military empire, which inevitable leads to conflicts, which tends to destroy empires over time. I believe we vastly over fund the war machine and allow it to get us in to trouble.

I understand and respect the rights view that too much regulations restricts our rights and big government bad. But I also believe that corruption and criminal activity isn’t strictly relegated to governments. Corporations only have a mandate to maximize profits and this often leads to cutting corners that affect us all.

I understand and respect the rights view on abortion, though I believe its up to the individual to decide on what they want to do with their body. I personally wouldn’t opt for an abortion unless I knew I couldn’t take care of the child, but I’m a guy… so again, its not my decision.

I lean left but ultimately see how f***** up our current system is. I hope that some of you on the right can take the time to understand where I am coming from. I can’t speak for everyone on the left, but I truly hope we can work on the actual issues together as opposed to politicizing everything. It just plays in to their hands. We get divided and the issues go out the window.

If you have more questions, I’m happy to share.

originally posted by: the owlbear
What is going to happen when our entire planet is faced with a dire threat from some external force/entity?

Should we have nations bickering about who has the best god, who is the richest, who is the poorest, who is "right" or "chosen by god"?

The time will come when this happens. It's not if, it's when.
The sooner we can leave behind all the political bs and be one people on one planet, the better.

LOL, the odds of all people being just one community is actually ridiculous. It doesn't even work within a single country. The odds of getting all people on the same page with one main goal and distribute wealth equally or at least by production value/population is absolutely absurd. It will never happen, this is not Independence Day 2. There are hunderds of major religions, monetary banking systems, governments with their own religious laws, and to have that just go up in smoke willingly to accept another cultures laws...Not going to happen in the next thousand years unless billions of people are wiped clean from the Earth and everything must be rebuilt, and still, it won't be a one world government. There will always be factions, always be different ideals, manifestos, declarations, ideologies that will take hold and create new forms of thought and living. No idea is perfect, which is why a one world government could never work unless it was a slave state, which would then have an uprising eventually.

The only possible way a one world government would work is if there was free energy for everyone. That would be the beginning. After that, integration of social systems, endless amounts of clean food, a currency that is based of a real item, a government that is actually serving people and not their own wealth, etc. After that happens then we can talk. And still, not going to happen.

originally posted by: AllKnowing

originally posted by: the owlbear
What is going to happen when our entire planet is faced with a dire threat from some external force/entity?

Should we have nations bickering about who has the best god, who is the richest, who is the poorest, who is "right" or "chosen by god"?

The time will come when this happens. It's not if, it's when.
The sooner we can leave behind all the political bs and be one people on one planet, the better.

LOL, the odds of all people being just one community is actually ridiculous. It doesn't even work within a single country. The odds of getting all people on the same page with one main goal and distribute wealth equally or at least by production value/population is absolutely absurd. It will never happen, this is not Independence Day 2. There are hunderds of major religions, monetary banking systems, governments with their own religious laws, and to have that just go up in smoke willingly to accept another cultures laws...Not going to happen in the next thousand years unless billions of people are wiped clean from the Earth and everything must be rebuilt, and still, it won't be a one world government. There will always be factions, always be different ideals, manifestos, declarations, ideologies that will take hold and create new forms of thought and living. No idea is perfect, which is why a one world government could never work unless it was a slave state, which would then have an uprising eventually.

The only possible way a one world government would work is if there was free energy for everyone. That would be the beginning. After that, integration of social systems, endless amounts of clean food, a currency that is based of a real item, a government that is actually serving people and not their own wealth, etc. After that happens then we can talk. And still, not going to happen.

If we can imagine it, we can create it.

a reply to: amfirst1

Why does the left support World Government?

Is there some suggestion here that the right does NOT support World Government ??

In my country it does not matter which faction is in power the same agenda continues to get rolled out. The same goes for England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Sweden, France, etc etc etc... Why would the US, where it all comes from anyway, be any different?????????

A case of people living in prisons of their own mental construction perhaps?

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: amfirst1

Why does the left support World Government?

Is there some suggestion here that the right does NOT support World Government ??

In my country it does not matter which faction is in power the same agenda continues to get rolled out. The same goes for England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Sweden, France, etc etc etc... Why would the US, where it all comes from anyway, be any different?????????

A case of people living in prisons of their own mental construction perhaps?

That's just it. The left has people from the Republican party embedded in helping provide an additional push to help those pushing marxism. Like McCain, Bush, and Graham for some hints.

All they have to do is go along on the voting and make it look like they are tough on lefty ideas but still allow them and make excuses as the freedoms are peeled away from our citizens.