U.S. Steel reopening Illinois plant after tariff announcement

originally posted by: rickymouse
The thing is that if we do not have good jobs in our communities and the people do not spend that money they earn in the community to increase your communities jobs, then nobody can afford to buy anything. I blame a lot of our societies problems on people buying from big online businesses like Amazon and others because it takes money out of local economies.

Whoever has been running this nations economy is failing beyond belief. People are buying stuff they do not need because they can get it online cheap, also because they get things online at a reduced price, they blow their savings on things they do not actually need, they seem to think now that their available credit on a card is their money and they need to use it to boost their credit score.

Boy, have the people been conditioned wrong in our society.

Are you even aware of what Amazon is? Thousands of businesses both big and small, mom and pop type small, use Amazon to get their products out to consumers. Amazon is merely the middle man, providing an avenue for businesses to reach consumers.

Buying online or from brick and mortar makes no difference in the decision to buy unneeded products. Your blame of online purchasing for whatever is misplaced. Online purchasing has made it possible to save from using excess gasoline and to do price AND quality compare, saving the consumer a lot of money and headaches.

OP is correct. We can't keep doing business as usual. Sometimes taking ANOTHER path is the right decision and may require a step or two back. It's the big picture we need to look at and how it will result in America being healthier and in a better place.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Only way the economy can come back,look what outsourcing did,they pretty much did away with Americans making anything but boxes to put foreign item's in,even the staffing is outsourced,socialist way,set a wage and everyone gets it

originally posted by: StoutBroux

originally posted by: rickymouse
The thing is that if we do not have good jobs in our communities and the people do not spend that money they earn in the community to increase your communities jobs, then nobody can afford to buy anything. I blame a lot of our societies problems on people buying from big online businesses like Amazon and others because it takes money out of local economies.

Whoever has been running this nations economy is failing beyond belief. People are buying stuff they do not need because they can get it online cheap, also because they get things online at a reduced price, they blow their savings on things they do not actually need, they seem to think now that their available credit on a card is their money and they need to use it to boost their credit score.



Boy, have the people been conditioned wrong in our society.

Are you even aware of what Amazon is? Thousands of businesses both big and small, mom and pop type small, use Amazon to get their products out to consumers. Amazon is merely the middle man, providing an avenue for businesses to reach consumers.

Buying online or from brick and mortar makes no difference in the decision to buy unneeded products. Your blame of online purchasing for whatever is misplaced. Online purchasing has made it possible to save from using excess gasoline and to do price AND quality compare, saving the consumer a lot of money and headaches.

OP is correct. We can't keep doing business as usual. Sometimes taking ANOTHER path is the right decision and may require a step or two back. It's the big picture we need to look at and how it will result in America being healthier and in a better place.

I look at things on a local effect on our economy. These companies like Amazon take away many of the local jobs here and cause businesses to go out of business or to raise prices to make it. Brick and mortar stores have lots more overhead, they have our local people working in them. Most of the stuff on Amazon is not made here, it is stores that import products from other countries. I mean the supplements and vitamins are put into capsules here, but the materials are made in countries like India and China most times. I researched many of these imported chemistries, they are actually safe and real, but most often shipped to the US from foreign countries then stuck into pills from American companies. There are still some companies making their own with those, but they are not affordable to most people and the quality is about the same. It is not the cost of the ingredients that is the issue, it is how much money the owners want to make profit.

a reply to: luthier

Us steele has increased in profit since 2000. Shares are worth 6 times what they were then.

So US Steel is making a profit. Could that be why they're opening a new plant?

The average salary is $80k.

How exactly is it a bad thing that they pay their employees well?

Automation is responsible for job loss not markets.

There's 2000 new jobs associated with this plant opening.

Literally the US steele industry controls 70 percent of the steele market.

Not sure what that has to do with anything?

Tariff on steele has never worked.

Define "worked." I am taking that statement as meaning "tariffs have never accomplished the desired goal." In this case, the desired goal is to energize and expand the US steel and aluminum industries, so based on that goal, your statement is self-evidently incorrect. A new steel plant and 2000 new jobs in the steel industry is exactly the stated goal, and that goal is being accomplished.

And it affects multiple industries as well as consumers.

Please name an industry that doesn't.

It is true that the tariffs will cause a small increase in costs, but that small increase will come at the expense of creating new, better-paying jobs, helping to rebuild the middle class, and allowing consumers to absorb that cost increase. It is easier for someone making $80K a year in steel to pay 36K instead of $35K for their new car, than it is for someone making $20K working fast food to pay the $35K.

The anti-Trump agenda really confuses me sometimes... When the discussion was tax cuts, the argument was that income taxes wouldn't slow economic development on affected businesses, but when it is tariffs, it is argued that they will slow economic development on affected industries. Both are taxes affecting the cost of doing business... so which is it? Are taxes on foreign imports bad for America and taxes on Americans good for America? What manner of warped logic is that?

TheRedneck

a reply to: rickymouse

It is not the cost of the ingredients that is the issue, it is how much money the owners want to make profit.

Making a profit is not a bad thing. In a competitive marketplace, profit works well as a driving force. The issue is the cost of foreign versus the cost of domestic.

In some countries, one can simply decide to clear some land, hire a few kids from the village for kid wages to clear it, plant some seeds, and grow a product. There are no child labor laws, no minimum wage laws, no reporting income to the government, no restrictions on cutting trees, no subsidy-driven quotas on crops produced, etc., etc., etc.

In the US, one must comply with EPA regulations, often getting a permit to cut the trees. Then one must check zoning laws to make sure that it is legal to grow the crops. One must then hire a professional service to clear the trees and dispose of them, since burning them on site would be polluting the atmosphere. Once the trees are cleared, one must purchase seeds from a seed company, because everyone else does and is under contract to not sell seeds. That puts the new planter under contract as well, meaning there is a regular yearly cost to buy more seeds instead of saving 10% of the crop to replant. Once the crop is grown, there are more regulations on the sale of the harvest, as well as taxes on the sale.

That's not to say none of the costs we bear are needed. Child labor laws are maybe overdone, but are a good thing at least in principle. Pollution regulations are often necessary. Zoning laws are needed if an area is to be dedicated to a particular use for the benefit of society. But there is a cost associated with this, and it makes no sense to penalize our own people for this compliance, while ignoring the unfair advantage it gives to competing companies. That's why tariffs are sometimes needed... not because we can't compete, but because we can't compete with someone who is on a completely different playing field.

Tariffs are the cost of regulations. Time for us to pay up.

TheRedneck

a reply to: nwtrucker

And America will end up in a vicious cycle.

Domestic prices will go up, because it's cheaper to import from elsewhere. Company's will figure this out and move out of town.

People seem to forget that the US is surrounded by, TWO oceans. Shipping costs, and other nations climbing the capitalist ladder is what killed America. Short minded decision to a much bigger issue, or, rather a non existent issue to be honest.

but but, i seem to recall obama saying this was impossible, a statement supported by every newspaper, headline news.

something to the effect of: "those jobs are never coming back" spoken in a patronizing tone with a condescending smile. what a pos.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: nwtrucker

And America will end up in a vicious cycle.

Domestic prices will go up, because it's cheaper to import from elsewhere. Company's will figure this out and move out of town.

People seem to forget that the US is surrounded by, TWO oceans. Shipping costs, and other nations climbing the capitalist ladder is what killed America. Short minded decision to a much bigger issue, or, rather a non existent issue to be honest.

To be honest, you say? Tell that to the workers in both steel and aluminum. Either you sit nice and pretty as you are or even profit from the current mechanism.

Yep, some domestic prices will go up. Companies moving out due to prices going up will face tariffs bringing their products back to the U.S..

Their call.

I, for one, will pay higher prices willingly if I know it's going to keep this nation a little stronger.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Just got back from work after trying to bond some textiles onto brand new aluminium frames. Honestly don't know what's happened to ally over here but it's crap compared to 20 years ago. Do't know why but the average quality is junk, if we can have Mr Trump come over here and sort out our metals industry then yes please. You are so lucky in the USA having a leader who is actually doing what he proposed pre election and also one who cares about making stuff in house instead of letting Asians take all the jobs and destroying local communities in the process. What a guy

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: nwtrucker

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically.

Not just job losses but the rise in cost could prompt a rise in inflation which would lead to interest rate rises that will also hit the consumer , people with less money to spend spend less money so it would also have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

Add that to the reciprocal tariffs imposed by effected countries on American goods and you have a recipe for recession.

This.

People are happy to celebrate the short term gains without considering wider potential implications.

I suspect it's you who isn't looking at the wider implications.

You got more than a line in response?

These jobs will only last as long as they’re cheaper than automation, there’ll be a boom, but it’ll be temporary as retaliatory tariffs are implemented and the effects will be felt.

And if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. We’re all trying to predict the future here.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: nwtrucker

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically.

Not just job losses but the rise in cost could prompt a rise in inflation which would lead to interest rate rises that will also hit the consumer , people with less money to spend spend less money so it would also have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

Add that to the reciprocal tariffs imposed by effected countries on American goods and you have a recipe for recession.

This.

People are happy to celebrate the short term gains without considering wider potential implications.

I suspect it's you who isn't looking at the wider implications.

You got more than a line in response?

These jobs will only last as long as they’re cheaper than automation, there’ll be a boom, but it’ll be temporary as retaliatory tariffs are implemented and the effects will be felt.

And if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. We’re all trying to predict the future here.

Automation is an entirely different story and on that score I'd agree. The way TPTB 'seem' to view it as automation can replace the easier, cheap labor jobs the east has enjoyed. It makes sense.

Where I part ways is the retaliatory tariffs. On what?? Military exports? Food? Coal and other raw materials those nations need??

What manufactured goods are we in fear of having tariffs placed on?? It's virtually gone. Kaput!

I don't see industry specific items that harm us to any degree. Your going to have to come up with specifics for me to see anything short of an all out trade war being a problem.

originally posted by: luthier
A few unpopular points for trump supporters.

Us steele has increased in profit since 2000. Shares are worth 6 times what they were then. The average salary is $80k. Automation is responsible for job loss not markets. Literally the US steele industry controls 70 percent of the steele market.

Tariff on steele has never worked.

And it affects multiple industries as well as consumers.

seekingalpha.com...

you do know factories here in the USrun cheaper even with machines due to lower repair and upkeep.

a reply to: intrptr
This is definitely a good things. The salvage and refurbishing industry will do well from this news. Prices offered for recycled metal should increase as well. Even the base of the food chain will significantly benefit from these actions. Expect to see more people (competitors) pick up scrapping as a side hobby or income.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I used this article to shut down two Chicago Trump-haters today.

Low Income Trump Hater: Trump is kicking people off of public aid, if they don't get a job. There aint no jobs!

Me: U.S. Steel is reopening a big Steel Mill down by E. Saint Louis, IL., and there are lots of new jobs over in Michigan and up in Wisconsin.

Low Income Trump Hater: But that's not Chicago. We need good jobs in Chicago!

Me: Trump can't help you there, cause the Godfather, mayor Rahm Emmanuel, told the Federal Government to stay away. Since you don't own much, moving to a new location should be a piece of cake. Over 2,000 people leave Illinois every month for a better life, and never come back. You can join them...or complain until the day you die. In America, you're free improve your life whenever you want! Go for it.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: intrptr
This is definitely a good things. The salvage and refurbishing industry will do well from this news. Prices offered for recycled metal should increase as well. Even the base of the food chain will significantly benefit from these actions. Expect to see more people (competitors) pick up scrapping as a side hobby or income.

For the purposes of said recycling, I follow the price of metals. They are upward trending...

Kitco, copper

ETA: Did you read this one?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was just telling people the other day how u.s steel would prosper. So far all my predictions are coming true.

originally posted by: SatansPride
I was just telling people the other day how u.s steel would prosper. So far all my predictions are coming true.

It's a first move. I suspect other steel operations will follow suit. Be it recycling operations or just smaller, specialized companies.

Then there the aluminum closers. Here's hoping.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Yeah. When the wall prototypes first came out I was telling people to invest in U.S Steel & Allegheny Technologies. I think that was like 6 months to a year ago.

originally posted by: amicktd
Our country has been pillaged by corrupt politicians for so long that fixing the simple things are going to be a little painful for some at the beginning. That’s how I look at it. I have a feeling these tariffs are gonna grab us some great deals once the countries we trade with realize we’re done rolling over for them.

Our corrupt politicians certainly lied, misrepresented things in order to screw the american public by sending jobs overseas.

However , is it coincidence now that we are in the verge of epic automation that we are bringing these jobs back?

is the American public being fooled again by these crooks? Are these jobs beng brought back to simply help expand the automation industry?
Will these jobs be short term like the benefits of nafta were?

originally posted by: interupt42

originally posted by: amicktd
Our country has been pillaged by corrupt politicians for so long that fixing the simple things are going to be a little painful for some at the beginning. That’s how I look at it. I have a feeling these tariffs are gonna grab us some great deals once the countries we trade with realize we’re done rolling over for them.

Our corrupt politicians certainly lied, misrepresented things in order to screw the american public by sending jobs overseas.

However , is it coincidence now that we are in the verge of epic automation that we are bringing these jobs back?

is the American public being fooled again by these crooks? Are these jobs beng brought back to simply help expand the automation industry?
Will these jobs be short term like the benefits of nafta were?

They likely are shorter term than we'd like. Automation isn't going away. If we don't utilize it, the rest of the world will. It also cuts out the low skilled-cheap labor mechanism we've suffered from.

Survival is the name of the game, methinks. At least this way, we end up with our fair share of the automated industry-not that the art of individual skill will completely go away- the alternative is zero big industry ticket items.

A virtually complete shutdown of U.S. industry. This is far better than the alternative. A more level playing field, now.

We can worry about the next issue, automation, after we recreate an industry to automate.