Taliban being offered official political party in Afganistan An insult to all injured troops

a reply to: TheJesuit

I thought the main reason we are there is to guard the opium fields against the Taliban so the CIA can sell heroin to Russia and the Islamists. It is the new golden triangle. Other than that, why could we possibly be there? They didn't do 911 and they were not threatening Israel. We haven't exactly derived any financial benefit from this war.

As a guy who was in Afghanistan doing 'Guy-in-Afghanistan' things, this is no insult. Yes, the Taliban sucks ass, but are we going to sit there for another 16 years?

No thanks.

We could try wiping them out, but decentralized networks are hard to destroy for a reason. 16, almost 17 years, and we still cannot totally end the Taliban.

I watched as Taliban fighters gained ground. What was once held by ANA, now has the Taliban flag flying over it.

So let's take a recap here:

You have the Taliban who wants to be part of the government and be represented. Then you have the Haqqani Network, Daesh aligned groups vying for battlefield successes. The Iranians, Chinese, Indians, and Pakistani all vying for resources in Afghanistan. The US trying to minimize the economic damage of losing trillions of dollars in unexploited resources in Afghanistan to the aforementioned groups, while still fighting the crazies.

Let 'em come to the table. If that means we can finally leave.

The Taliban is just being smart. They can either be a part of the process, or keep fighting and missing out on all that money that's about to pour in.

The Taliban working within a recognized political system rather than randomly terrorizing people and blowing up ancient monuments? That sounds exactly what everybody was fighting for.

originally posted by: TheJesuit
Tell that to those who lost limbs and lives over there never mind the Billions spent in your tax dollars to "liberate" them. it's backwards period.

a reply to: MisterSpock

They can blame their government. The US shouldn't be there.

I spent 18 months in Afganistan. I dont care what they do with their country. If you havent been there, you just cant understand. You land at Kandahar and its like you traveled back in time. Its not an insult as far as Im concerned, Let them run the "country". Its the essence of a #hole.

a reply to: olaru12

no, our goal was to destroy the taliban and drive out al-qaeda, why on earth would you think it was about doing anything for afghanistan?

Ok, so to the people who think it's a good idea, or even a 'step in the right direction' - why not ask yourselves, "What do these idiots stand do"?

From here:

But who are the Taliban, and what do they want? Zabiullah Mujahid, a spokesman for Mullah Omar, the one-eyed leader of the Taliban, , said in an interview with CNN last year: "We ask from the beginning and we say once again: to enforce the sharia law and Islamic government in Afghanistan, to remove foreign forces from our country," said .

Sharia Law. Islamic government. Neither of those things are a good idea. Period.

Their views on women are distinctly draconian.

Who in their right minds would want these animal savages in a position of political power?

I cannot see anything good coming from this. Yes, maybe the explicit violence will drop, but as soon as their political power grows, the country will be right back to where it was. You cannot educate or work with these savages.

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: olaru12

no, our goal was to destroy the taliban and drive out al-qaeda, why on earth would you think it was about doing anything for afghanistan?

That would mean the US lost which means the winner get to do as it pleases.

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: olaru12

no, our goal was to destroy the taliban and drive out al-qaeda, why on earth would you think it was about doing anything for afghanistan?

That would mean the US lost which means the winner get to do as it pleases.

All truth be told, they dont send us out to win wars. They send us out with a narrow view and objective and once the American people get bored, the objective changes. To win a war, you have to have a clear enemy and in the ME, the line between friend and foe becomes less clear as each day passes.

a reply to: Anathros

I don't really believe it is about winning a war. Never the less, the US isn't in the position to decide. If it gets to be a problem, the CIA will be asked to remedy the situation.

originally posted by: noonebutme
Sharia Law. Islamic government. Neither of those things are a good idea. Period.

Afghanistan is a Muslim majority country. Of course they'll want an Islamic government lol. And ironically, the West has helped destroy many of the secular governments in Muslim-majority countries in favor of the more conservative Muslim movements. So I don't get your point here.

Their views on women are distinctly draconian. Who in their right minds would want these animal savages in a position of political power?

I agree on this point. The Taliban follows the ultra conservative Wahhabism, just like ISIS/Daesh, Al Qaeda, al Nusra Front, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, and many other extremist groups. I disagree completely with many of their policies towards women because I'm pretty much a Muslim feminist. But I can't help noticing that many conservatives here are also against the women's rights movement and feminists in general. So I find this point a little weird when we have conservative Christians right here who are also against women's rights, women's equality, women's reproductive rights, etc.

Who in their right minds would want these animal savages in a position of political power?

From my perspective, anyone who voluntary kills or oppresses someone else is a "savage". And ironically, I consider anyone who volunteers to kill complete strangers on the other side of the planet to be the biggest "savages" of all.

If the Taliban are "animal savages", then what are we in the West? Because we've been in a cycle of perpetual war for centuries, invading, conquering, and militarily occupying nearly every other region on the planet during that time frame. In fact, many people will point out that we in the US have a war based economy & that our entire economy will collapse if we stop our warmongering.

Just in the current "War on Terror", the US has done drone strikes on weddings & funerals, has tortured suspects to death in various black sites around the world, etc. So what moral high ground do we have, especially since we've backed similar Wahhabi paramilitaries all over the world, including the ones we worked with in Libya, Syria, and Yeme)?

You cannot educate or work with these savages.

The Taliban is a Wahhabi-based group, just like the West's allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The UK's worked with Wahhabis since Lawrence of Arabia and the US has been staunch allies with them since at least FDR. We sell them massive amounts of products (especially defense related), and we get foreign investment and petrodollar deals in return. The US even has a major military base in Qatar that's specifically there to prop up their Wahhabi government.

The GCC is an staunch ally of the West that's dominated by Saudi Arabia's pro-Wahhabi policies. Nearly all GCC countries have Western military bases in them and the GCC is literally in a Cold War right now with the US & Israel's nemesis Iran. Wahhabis have a blood feud with Shia Islam and they are generally neutral with Israel in practice, which further explains the West's constant alliances with them. This alliance also guarantees that Western countries also get Wahhabi paramilitaries to be our "boots on the ground" in proxy wars when Western populations are against specific wars (like in Chechnya, Afghanistan vs the USSR in the 1980s, in Libya against Qaddafi, in Syria against Assad, in Yemen against the Houthis, etc).

In other words, you have no clue what you're talking about in practice because world governments have been working with these groups since before you were born. And as we speak, the US has been advocating for the Turkmenistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan–India Pipeline (TAPI) which has recently begun construction and which the Taliban has openly pledged to support. This is by far the real reason that the Taliban is being accepted now.

The long-awaited mega gas pipeline project of Turk­menistan, Afghanis­tan, Pakis­tan and India (TAPI) connecting the energy-rich Central Asian nation with the South Asian countries was inaugurated on Friday, with leaders of the four countries attending its groundbreaking ceremony in Serhetabat followed by another in Herat.

In an exceptional show of regional cooperation, the quartet aims to complete the 1,840-kilometre pipeline at a cost of $8 billion within two years to begin pumping 33 billion cubic metres (bcm) of natural gas annually from Turkmenis­tan’s giant Galkynysh gas field amid security concerns in the war-weary Afgha­nistan though the Afghan Taliban have vowed to protect the pipeline.

While the project has allowed Turkmenistan to find new consumers in Asia by reducing its dependence on Beijing, which buys about 35bcm gas annually, it is also being advocated by the United States over an alternative pipeline to bring gas from Iran through Pakistan and into India.

In a telephone interview, Afghan Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told AP that they were ready to guarantee the pipeline’s security. “We are ready to protect TAPI. It is good and important and vital for the economy of Afghanistan,” he said, noting the pipeline had been under consideration during the Taliban rule that ended in 2001

Bonhomie marks opening of TAPI gas pipeline

I don't know why anyone from outside would be insulted, it's the Afghan's homeland.

So, to re-cap.....the US created the Taliban through it’s arming of Islamic fundies, to drive out the pesky Russians from Afghanistan. Years later, they then want to stiff the Taliban government over pipeline tariffs and are told to go jump in a lake. Much indignation ensues and the US, quite by chance, finds a good excuse to invade and drive out those pesky Taliban chaps they originally armed and funded.
As a bonus, the opium trade once again takes off big time...large ones all round at the club guys!
After years of death and destruction bringing democracy to Afghanistan (chuckle), the Afghan government decides it would be best all round to allow the Taliban chaps a seat at the table once again.

Cue sudden emergence of ISIS (or whatever they come up with next) as an excuse for another invasion!

The bankers and armaments boys are probably already looking at what expensive toys they can buy next with the projected profits.

A few more dumb expendable military folks coming home in coffins or with bits missing is a price they are willing to pay for that new yacht or mansion.

a reply to: TheJesuit

I agree its insulting but do you really think the powers that be in the US, the super elite, care two stuffs about what the vets reckon of it?

People who join the millitree need to investigate some conspiracy theories about world control before joining it.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Afghanistan is a Muslim majority country. Of course they'll want an Islamic government lol. And ironically, the West has helped destroy many of the secular governments in Muslim-majority countries in favor of the more conservative Muslim movements. So I don't get your point here.

My point is, nothing good will ever come from an Islamic govt. Nothing for its people, who will be oppressed by archaic belief systems, of the rest of the world who cannot criticise its beliefs without the threat of violence, followed up by *actual* violence.

From my perspective, anyone who voluntary kills or oppresses someone else is a "savage". And ironically, I consider anyone who volunteers to kill complete strangers on the other side of the planet to be the biggest "savages" of all.

If killing people who would believe the world should be ruled by their fairy tale beliefs, subjugate women, kill homosexuals and murder those who leave their faith is a savage then call me a savage. But I wouldnt ever wish your death because you don't believe in fairy tales. Or because you're gay, or a woman.

If the Taliban are "animal savages", then what are we in the West?

Civilised.

Basically you're apologising for a disgusting breed of human; those who suppress and use violence as a means of control.

Yes, you can argue all you want about the west. But in the west, I can criticise my govt, my religion (if i were religious...), and whatever I want without being beheaded or blown up.

That's the difference between a "civilised" country and a draconian savage country.