Debunking Flat Earth and the Hollow Earth

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

You've been proved wrong about this elsewhere and you're wrong about this now. You are either incapable of listening or you refuse to concede that you are wrong. Debating you is like talking to a brick wall.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

You've been proved wrong about this elsewhere and you're wrong about this now. You are either incapable of listening or you refuse to concede that you are wrong. Debating you is like talking to a brick wall.

Saying "you've been proved wrong" over and over is not proving anything. If you actually COULD prove me wrong, you'd have backed it up by this point.

I've explained how the instruments measure level flight, ascent, and descent.

If you can prove any of it wrong, go ahead.

I'll wait.

Unknown to every pilot in history, they have all flown planes in a constant rate of descent, while their instruments show LEVEL flight! Gravity has the secret ability to fool their instruments, into a 'level' flight that is never even level at all, it is in a constant descent!

Time for all the pilots to know what's really going on!!

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

You've been proved wrong about this elsewhere and you're wrong about this now. You are either incapable of listening or you refuse to concede that you are wrong. Debating you is like talking to a brick wall.

Saying "you've been proved wrong" over and over is not proving anything. If you actually COULD prove me wrong, you'd have backed it up by this point.

I've explained how the instruments measure level flight, ascent, and descent.

If you can prove any of it wrong, go ahead.

I'll wait.

Try reading some of these answers. And then try reading this. And then read this. Oh and then there's this.
Will you read any of those links or will you just repost your nonsense yet again?

a reply to: turbonium1

i has already posted the below in this thread - you chose to ignore it

f an aircraft is in neutral trim // COG and does not move any of its control surfaces - then [ at a give altutude - letsuse 5000m ASL ( and therefore given airpressure )] if the velocity of airflow across its wings remains constant - the lift generated by the wings will not change [ for simplicity - we are ignoring all eviromental variables wind , humidity etc etc etc - we are using an ideal homogenous atmosphere - with only one variable - airpressure decreasese with altitude ] ]

does everyone agree with the ^ premise [ if not - state why ]

now - if the lift generated - remains constant - then the aircraft altutude will remain static -

agree ? [ if not why ?????????????? ]

now flying over a spheroid earth - the air pressure at 5000m ASL = the same at every point on the planet

thus - as lift does not change - altitude will not change - it will fly level - maintianing 5000m ASL

the aircraft flies at a tangent to its CURRENT location above the centre of the earth - flatearth proponents have the delusuion that it should fly at a tangent to its starting location - which is utter bollox

ergo - level flight - with no adjustment

simples

a reply to: ignorant_ape

and the TL : DR summary of the above :

if we assume [ as a given ] that the aircraft is flying level around a spheroid

flat tards - have the delusion that " the plane must be in constant descent "

NONE OF THEM can EVER explain why the altimiter reading doesnt change

originally posted by: turbonium1
Unknown to every pilot in history, they have all flown planes in a constant rate of descent, while their instruments show LEVEL flight! Gravity has the secret ability to fool their instruments, into a 'level' flight that is never even level at all, it is in a constant descent!

Time for all the pilots to know what's really going on!!

If you were a pilot flying manually, of course you would continuously be making invisible mircro adjustments to the controls to keep the altimeter reading constant.

If the autopilot were the one keeping the plane at a constant altimeter reading, that autopilot would be making continuous and constant micro adjustments to the controls.

You might not notice the correction for the curvature, because that correction is constant, tiny, and part of all of the overall corrections for level flight.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: turbonium1

i has already posted the below in this thread - you chose to ignore it

f an aircraft is in neutral trim // COG and does not move any of its control surfaces - then [ at a give altutude - letsuse 5000m ASL ( and therefore given airpressure )] if the velocity of airflow across its wings remains constant - the lift generated by the wings will not change [ for simplicity - we are ignoring all eviromental variables wind , humidity etc etc etc - we are using an ideal homogenous atmosphere - with only one variable - airpressure decreasese with altitude ] ]

does everyone agree with the ^ premise [ if not - state why ]

now - if the lift generated - remains constant - then the aircraft altutude will remain static -

agree ? [ if not why ?????????????? ]

now flying over a spheroid earth - the air pressure at 5000m ASL = the same at every point on the planet

thus - as lift does not change - altitude will not change - it will fly level - maintianing 5000m ASL

the aircraft flies at a tangent to its CURRENT location above the centre of the earth - flatearth proponents have the delusuion that it should fly at a tangent to its starting location - which is utter bollox

ergo - level flight - with no adjustment

simples

For the simple minded folk such as I, allow me to put this in a simplified abstract way..

What your formula is stating is, if there is nothing to force a plane to ascend, then there is no reason to force decent and this remains constant (within the context).

For the sake of argument (an odd term) surely this theory could be applied by a rhetorical ''flat earther'' to explain a flat earth ie the air pressure remains constant = flat earth.

I'm not here to join the debate, I only ask who is pushing the flat earth theory and why.

If flat earth was a political party, it would be gaining a suprising amount of voters.. perhaps due to the spin

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Surely ''tiny'' is relative to speed no?

Let's say a plane was travelling 10, 20 or even 1000 times faster, the adjustment needed to follow the curvature would be significantly greater than ''tiny''.

It's all about perception; which is ironically also a term often used in the argument for a flat earth.

It's all quite cleverly done, but of course, that would be my perception.

a reply to: Beyond Creation

The curve of the Earth is 8 inches of arc per mile.

So yes, very tiny.

A plane traveling at 500 Mph, going 1,000 times that would burn up due to atmospheric friction. 20 times that would be 10,000 Mph, starting to become more rocket than plane.

10 times that would be 5,000 Mph....which exceeds the SR-71 Blackbird (top speed of 2,200 Mph).

The X-15 holds the record for the fastest manned aircraft speed record at 4,520 Mph, which was in 1967.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

You've been proved wrong about this elsewhere and you're wrong about this now. You are either incapable of listening or you refuse to concede that you are wrong. Debating you is like talking to a brick wall.

Saying "you've been proved wrong" over and over is not proving anything. If you actually COULD prove me wrong, you'd have backed it up by this point.

I've explained how the instruments measure level flight, ascent, and descent.

If you can prove any of it wrong, go ahead.

I'll wait.

Try reading some of these answers. And then try reading this. And then read this. Oh and then there's this.
Will you read any of those links or will you just repost your nonsense yet again?

I've read the links.

There are all sorts of varying opinions on it - including those arguing for the flat Earth.

So do you want me to ignore the flat Earth posts, on your own links, and only look at the round Earth arguments, which you support?

No matter, here's part of the first response from one of your links..

"For instance, if a plane is cleared to maintain 35,000 feet, by regulations, the pilot must maintain that level based on a standard barometric pressure setting (29.92 inHg or 1013 millibars) Hence it would stay at that altitude (FL350) because the pilot is either controlling the plane manually or has engaged the autopilot to achieve that.

There are two basic instruments that enable this procedure - an altimeter and a vertical speed indicator (VSI). The VSI provides short term changes in pressure and indicates whether the plane is climbing or descending. These changes will give an indication to the pilot so that he would level the plane to maintain 35,000 feet. He will adjust the controls very slightly by use of the elevator and trims. This can be performed automatically by the autopilot as well. As such, the flight controls are constantly moving very subtly to maintain the correct attitude.

You said that, if the plane was trimmed for a straight and level flight, it would ‘gain altitude’ while flying as the earth surface ‘fell away’ due to the curvature of the earth. Well, that would probably happen in a perfectly motionless atmosphere where the plane would fly dead ahead, and over time gain altitude (provided it has sufficient thrust) as the earth curves away from under the airplane

In reality, a constant altitude must be kept using the standard pressure and that means a fixed distance to the earth center of gravity is maintained, making the path of the plane a curved one."


One more time...

"There are two basic instruments that enable this procedure - an altimeter and a vertical speed indicator (VSI). The VSI provides short term changes in pressure and indicates whether the plane is climbing or descending. These changes will give an indication to the pilot so that he would level the plane to maintain 35,000 feet. He will adjust the controls very slightly by use of the elevator and trims. This can be performed automatically by the autopilot as well. As such, the flight controls are constantly moving very subtly to maintain the correct attitude."

Thanks for confirming what I've already told you, repeatedly.

The VSI measures level flight as neither an ascent or descent, within air. Get it now?

So what next?

The pilot/autopilot will 'LEVEL THE PLANE TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE'.

How does he maintain level flight while flying over 'curvature', which is never level? Strictly speaking, a plane can NEVER fly level at all, and maintain altitude, if Earth was a sphere. A plane MUST fly in a constant descent, throughout the flight, to even get CLOSE to level, and nothing can excuse that away..

What does he say about this?...

"As such, the flight controls are constantly moving very subtly to maintain the correct attitude."

He goes out of his way to NOT mention a constant descent. Because there IS no constant descent on flights.

The "flight controls are constantly moving very subtly"!!

He has described how all flights would have to fly at a constant rate of descent, to maintain altitude over a sphere. He has described how the VSI measures level flight, which is exactly what I've described to you, many times before.

So when he says "flight controls are constantly moving very subtly"???

A constant rate of descent would be absolutely required for all flights, ever done before, or after.

Why doesn't he say that? Why didn't he say anything about a constant rate of descent being required on all flights? Or that it actually HAPPENS in all flights?

If all pilots are making constant subtle adjustments in every flight, either manually or by autopilot, and have always done so, then we'd have all sorts of details about it, how it's done, which instruments are involved, and - obviously - THE REASON FOR MAKING THOSE SPECIFIC, CONSTANT, SUBTLE ADJUSTMENTS, DURING EVERY FLIGHT!!

Every pilot would understand the importance of Earth's curvature to all flights. They'd know it is 8 inches per mile squared, and that it has serious implications for all of our flights. The only way to maintain altitude in a flight is following the Earth's curvature.

Most pilots don't seem to worry about flying over a sphere. Most pilots don't seem to even know what Earth's curvature measures per mile squared. Or even why they should know it.

This is so absurd, so ridiculous, that nobody considers it.

Curvature, right!

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: turbonium1
Unknown to every pilot in history, they have all flown planes in a constant rate of descent, while their instruments show LEVEL flight! Gravity has the secret ability to fool their instruments, into a 'level' flight that is never even level at all, it is in a constant descent!

Time for all the pilots to know what's really going on!!

If you were a pilot flying manually, of course you would continuously be making invisible mircro adjustments to the controls to keep the altimeter reading constant.

If the autopilot were the one keeping the plane at a constant altimeter reading, that autopilot would be making continuous and constant micro adjustments to the controls.

You might not notice the correction for the curvature, because that correction is constant, tiny, and part of all of the overall corrections for level flight.

What are "invisible micro adjustments"?

Same as the 'subtle, constant adjustments', obviously!

Yes, of course!


Unseen to all pilots, every plane makes invisible, microscopic adjustments throughout all flights. Nobody can see it, or barely so.

A plane flying 530 mph at altitude.

Curvature is 8 inches per mile squared.

The VSI measures ascent or descent in FEET PER MINUTE.

This means a plane flies 8.83 miles per minute, with 8 inches per mile, gives us 70.6 inches curvature each minute.

70.6 is 5.88 feet per minute of curvature.

Or, 5.88 fpm rate of descent.


And you now know the VSI measures descent in 'feet per minute'.

And if we had a 5.88 fpm rate of descent, the VSI would have measured it, right?


It's very unfortunate for your side, that instruments measure your 'invisible, micro' adjustments!

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

hey when you are flying Only with the AI, the VSI WILL SHOW A CONTINUAL RATE OF ASCENT, WHICH YOU THEN COUNTER ACT WITH MICRO DIPS TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE.

THE EARTH IS FLAT ? - YEAH RIGHT

originally posted by: Hyperboles

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

hey when you are flying Only with the AI, the VSI WILL SHOW A CONTINUAL RATE OF ASCENT, WHICH YOU THEN COUNTER ACT WITH MICRO DIPS TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE.

THE EARTH IS FLAT ? - YEAH RIGHT

If you are flying in a constant ascent, you are not flying level. Dips can make the plane fly level.

All planes ascend, descend, and fly level. Same thing.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Hyperboles

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

hey when you are flying Only with the AI, the VSI WILL SHOW A CONTINUAL RATE OF ASCENT, WHICH YOU THEN COUNTER ACT WITH MICRO DIPS TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE.

THE EARTH IS FLAT ? - YEAH RIGHT

If you are flying in a constant ascent, you are not flying level. Dips can make the plane fly level.

All planes ascend, descend, and fly level. Same thing.

You are flying in an ascent because of the curvature of the earth

I can understand that many people may not believe the Earth is flat, or round, or whatever.

For most of my life, I believed the Earth was round.

I do not believe it is round, anymore, because I've examined much of the evidence, for a round Earth, and for a flat Earth.


I cannot understand why people get so upset, and angry, over how the Earth is shaped.

To me, it doesn't matter what the Earth is shaped like. I take the evidence, and nothing else. Earth could be a frickin' triangle shape, who cares?

I believe Earth is flat, solely based on all of the valid evidence. Nothing else.

a reply to: turbonium1

i dont get mad - but it does say alot about the state of humanity that the flat tards are either so dishonest or uneducated that they simply regurgitate thier failed arguments ad nauseum

a prime example - you still have not explained how : an aircraft that is flying in " constant descent " - maintains the same altitude as it flies over a spheroid earth

originally posted by: Hyperboles

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Hyperboles

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: Jubei42

OP says if you fly ONLY with the reference to the artificial horizon. try this on a really calm night
Yes the auto pilot will maintain altitude when altitude mode is on

I'm not a pilot, but I'm guessing if a pilot is manually keeping his altitude the same, he/she is constantly making micro-dips. That pilot may not notice making these micro dips because it is all part of the constant manual input needed to keep the altimeter reading a constant altitude.

The Vertical Speed Indicator measures ascent, descent, and level flight. In order to maintain altitude above a spherical Earth, the VSI would indicate a constant rate of descent, and it does not.

If gravity 'pulled' planes around the curvature, at a fixed altitude, the plane still must fly in a constant descent, to follow the curvature. The VSI would indicate a descent, as before, but it actually indicates level flight....not a descent, which is required to follow a curvature.


And this alone proves that the Earth is, indeed, flat.

hey when you are flying Only with the AI, the VSI WILL SHOW A CONTINUAL RATE OF ASCENT, WHICH YOU THEN COUNTER ACT WITH MICRO DIPS TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE.

THE EARTH IS FLAT ? - YEAH RIGHT

If you are flying in a constant ascent, you are not flying level. Dips can make the plane fly level.

All planes ascend, descend, and fly level. Same thing.

You are flying in an ascent because of the curvature of the earth

Ascent has nothing to do with the surface below.

Suppose a plane is over a mountain range. Then it flies over the Grand Canyon. It flies level over both surfaces. Because the surface doesn't matter to flying level. A plane flies level WITHIN AIR. It does not fly level to the surfaces below. It would be utterly impossible for planes to fly level to a mountain range, or a canyon!


The VSI shows level flight as neither an ascent, nor descent - within air. It doesn't matter if you're over an ocean, a mountain range, or valley. Or an imaginary curved surface, nobody sees, or measures.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: turbonium1

i dont get mad - but it does say alot about the state of humanity that the flat tards are either so dishonest or uneducated that they simply regurgitate thier failed arguments ad nauseum

a prime example - you still have not explained how : an aircraft that is flying in " constant descent " - maintains the same altitude as it flies over a spheroid earth

Why are you insulting the opinions of others as dishonest, or stupid, and 'tards', if you're not angry about it?

Emotional outbursts stem from anger.

Again - planes do NOT fly in a constant rate of descent. The VSI indicates level flight, throughout. If the Earth was a sphere, planes would never be able to fly level, and if they followed curvature of a sphere, the VSI would indicate it as a DESCENT. That's not the case. The VSI indicates level flight, at altitude, throughout.


Curvature would require planes at 530 mph to fly a constant descent of approximately 6 feet per minute, without even squaring the curvature per mile. An descent of 6 fpm would be indicated on the VSI of every plane, ever flown. It reads LEVEL, throughout every flight.

It cannot be level and fly around a ball at the same time.

A descent has to be flown over curvature, or it cannot maintain altitude throughout the flight.



What is so hard to understand here?

a reply to: Hyperboles

Really now, and how do you know that the trees in the hollow earth are "huge" quote on quote?

As for flat earth, # dont know, last time I was on the moon didnt bother to look back behind me, so not sure, could have been roundish, or flat, or triangly or even square for all I know. You would think that something would be important, but nope, was not important, at all.

But hey, I think its a good thing. People tend to see what they want to see. If there lucky that is, most times they tend to see what they are conditioned to see. Anyways, one good thing about this whole flat earth thing is that seems to have gotten some people mostley the christian types out and about trying to disprove certain science facts.

Ah its always good when people test out science, after all that is what science is at the core, its not memorizing facts in a book, its going out and testing things out for yourself to see if they can be repeated.

Here look its gotten people from all walks of life trying to test out old taken for granted facts, just so they can see it for themselves. For you know a wise man once said, there is no experience and truth but personal experience and personal truth, everything else is merely taken on context and second hand knowledge.

Here are 3 vids on people trying to see the curvature of the earth, or at least according to the textbooks and wikis, well at least some textbooks and wikis. I mean who's to say that the textbooks are right to begin with. Or maybe they are doing the experiment wrong. Or maybe?




Or this one is pretty funny to, one man sees a curve and another sees a straight line, like I said people see what they want to see, or what they are conditioned to see. And that to is science.