Debunking Flat Earth and the Hollow Earth

a reply to: roguetechie

American, JetBlue, and some others have started a program where you go from zero to flying for them. Part of the program is to get you your CFI rating and you work as an instructor at the school while you work towards your ATP. It's a two to three year program to get to your First Officer position.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That's actually really cool. I know that something very similar is done in the helicopter world by a few companies, Especially in oil field country. The little brother of the guy who runs the demolition ranch YouTube channel talked about it pretty extensively while playing a match of squad or Arma once lol.

Too bad earth doesn't work like flerfers think though, because otherwise I'd totally start an intercontinental helicopter charter service!

Hell, you could train monkeys to ascend to a few thousand feet and let the earth spin under you!

Plus going through the continental divide and the Sierras or cascades would be like the ultimate game of frogger!

originally posted by: dragonridr

Your wrong look up how a plane determines altitude. A plane uses air pressure to determine how high the aircraft is flying. Meaning that in order to show zero in climb or decent it has to fly along a path with the same air density.

According to this source, and others....

In aviation, altitude refers to how high an aircraft is above mean sea level; that is, how high the aircraft is above the average level of the Earth's oceans. ... It works to measure height above sea level because the air's pressure decreases at a more or less regular rate as you ascend

www.angelflightne.org...

But the point is about level flight, and how curvature is unaccounted for on flights.

originally posted by: dragonridr
So again explain how this instrument proves anything according to your theory. If the only determination of altitude is based off air density how would this differ following a curve or maintaining a straight course? One other thing could you explain why air gets thinner the higher we go? With gravity this makes sense but without it I'm curious what you think is happening

Because there are TWO instruments involved, not only one.

The VSI measures ascent, descent, and level flight, and the altimeter measures altitude at the same time.

Air pressure/density is used for both measurements, NOT the surface/ground below. As I've repeatedly said, over and over.

To ascend or descend in air has NOTHING to do with the ground. We have level flight when neither in ascent, nor in descent.

A plane cannot fly over curvature, at altitude, without a constant descent. It cannot be done. It is physically impossible.

That's what the VSI is measuring. No descent is measured in flight, and it is proof of a flat Earth.

a reply to: turbonium1

If you fly a plane in a constant descent, that means you are losing altitude constantly. If you're losing altitude constantly, eventually you end up at 0 feet. If your VSI shows a 500 foot per minute descent, and you're at 500 feet, then in one minute, you will have flown into the ground.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
A VSI tells you about changes in air pressure as you rise and fall. That air pressure is based on the point you are in now, not some distant point along the Earth's curve.

www.boldmethod.com...

Yes, and if you read the comments, you can see that some people talk about pilots sometimes "chasing" a particular VSI model that features an accelerometer because they are not accustomed to its sensitivity...

...Which brings me to a point I made a while earlier that pilots and autopilots are constantly making small adjustments to the controls (in all directions of flight, up, down, and other) in order to keep at level and true flight. If all of those instantaneous control adjustments (up, down, and other) are added up over a long period/long distance, it could be seen that to follow the VSI to keep a constant altitude, the plane will follow the curvature of the air pressure above the curved Earth.

So while a pilot does not need to "mindfully" dip the nose in order to follow the curvature of the Earth, that curvature would show itself in the sum of the component adjustments a plane makes in the normal course of flying level over a long distance.

After saying it over and over again, countless times, you STILL don't have a clue!

The surface below a plane is not used to determine 'level flight', or ascent, or descent, in a flight, EVER.

Air is NOT millions of tiny, distinct pressure layers identifying all planes being 'level' or not!!

It is complete nonsense, same as before.


We know that pressure changes occur within atmosphere.... but it's certainly not layered in millions of tiny, distinctly unique pressure values!!

There should be a point where you see excuses hit bottom. Like now.

The VSI measures pressure AROUND a plane, to determine level flight, or not level flight. It compares pressure above, to below, the plane. Three stages of flight - ascent, descent, level - are measured by the VSI.

Drop the 'mini-lines' crap, please!

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

If you fly a plane in a constant descent, that means you are losing altitude constantly. If you're losing altitude constantly, eventually you end up at 0 feet. If your VSI shows a 500 foot per minute descent, and you're at 500 feet, then in one minute, you will have flown into the ground.

That's correct.

Over a sphere, it would have to descend constantly in order to maintain it's altitude. No plane descends constantly, of course, and proves the flatness of Earth's surface is true.

It's a shock at first, to accept the reality. ..

a reply to: turbonium1

Wrong. There's a difference between pointing the nose and descending. You can point the nose without climbing or descending. Over a sphere or a flat earth, if you fly at a constant descent, you're going to crash.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

Wrong. There's a difference between pointing the nose and descending. You can point the nose without climbing or descending. Over a sphere or a flat earth, if you fly at a constant descent, you're going to crash.

Not so.

If you fly over a sphere, a constant descent is required to maintain the same altitude.

On a flat Earth, a constant descent WOULD end in a crash to the surface.


They are different surfaces, and require very different flights.

a reply to: turbonium1

A descent is a descent, regardless of if the earth is flat or not. If you're flying over a sphere, you descend to land. If you're flying over a flat earth, you descend to land. If you descend in either case, you are going to impact the ground. You can point the nose up or down, and not climb or descend.

a reply to: turbonium1

You realize a plane can ascend or descend without pointing the nose...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

A descent is a descent, regardless of if the earth is flat or not. If you're flying over a sphere, you descend to land. If you're flying over a flat earth, you descend to land. If you descend in either case, you are going to impact the ground. You can point the nose up or down, and not climb or descend.

A sphere is a curved surface. A plane has to fly a curved path to follow above the surface, to maintain the same altitude.

Why would such a descent 'impact the ground' when it holds the same altitude above the sphere, throughout the flight?

a reply to: turbonium1

And where did anyone say it that there are lots of different pressure layers?

VSI measures pressure in the instrument, nowhere else.

Your complete lack of knowledge is getting badly exposed now. Give it up.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

And where did anyone say it that there are lots of different pressure layers?

VSI measures pressure in the instrument, nowhere else.

Your complete lack of knowledge is getting badly exposed now. Give it up.

What 'pressure layers' hold planes around a curvature, and suggest this is being in 'level' flight?

The VSI measures ascent, descent, and level flight. How do planes fly around a sphere without any descent? Because it's not a sphere at all.

Where is all that 'missing curvature' over a 6 hour flight?

a reply to: turbonium1

The VSI measures ascent, descent, and level flight. How do planes fly around a sphere without any descent? Because it's not a sphere at all.

NO

a VSI measures change in barometric pressure - it REPORTS asscent // descent by inference

this has been explained to you so many different ways - it hurts

but still you persist in your delusions


hypothetical annecdote :

an aircraft is flying over a spherical planet [ equitorial diameter 12000km ] @ ASL 10000m . its velocity [ over ground = 700kph . the VSI reports no asccent // descent .

it flies for 90minuites from its " last waypoint ^ ] - what is its altitude at waypoint # 2 ?

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

A descent is a descent, regardless of if the earth is flat or not. If you're flying over a sphere, you descend to land. If you're flying over a flat earth, you descend to land. If you descend in either case, you are going to impact the ground. You can point the nose up or down, and not climb or descend.

A sphere is a curved surface. A plane has to fly a curved path to follow above the surface, to maintain the same altitude.

Why would such a descent 'impact the ground' when it holds the same altitude above the sphere, throughout the flight?

Correct on both counts.
Compared to space yes the plane is descending all the time, but the VSI and Altimeter essentially are reading the height of the air column above it and in level flight over a curved surface, this is not changing, so the VSI AND ALTIMETER WILL STAY PUT EVEN IF THE PLANE IS DESCENDING COMPARED TO SPACE.
This to help you out with the most simplistic explanation.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: turbonium1

The VSI measures ascent, descent, and level flight. How do planes fly around a sphere without any descent? Because it's not a sphere at all.

NO

a VSI measures change in barometric pressure - it REPORTS asscent // descent by inference

this has been explained to you so many different ways - it hurts

but still you persist in your delusions


hypothetical annecdote :

an aircraft is flying over a spherical planet [ equitorial diameter 12000km ] @ ASL 10000m . its velocity [ over ground = 700kph . the VSI reports no asccent // descent .

it flies for 90minuites from its " last waypoint ^ ] - what is its altitude at waypoint # 2 ?

Ascent or descent is measured by pressure differential, within the VSI's diaphragm.

It is measured within air, uses air pressure to measure ascent, descent, and level flight of a plane.

Once again, this has NOTHING to do with the surface, far below the plane. Your endlessly claiming it.... is total nonsense.


I'm referring to YOUR argument of Earth's 'curvature', so that's what you need to address...

A plane flying 6 hours at cruising speed will require about 1800 feet of descent to maintain it's original altitude, say 38,000 feet.

Assume the VSI measures 0 feet per minute over the entire 6 hours, and the altitude remains at 38,000 feet, throughout the same 6 hours.

It is only possible for this to work flying over a flat Earth. It is impossible to explain over a round Earth.

Double post

a reply to: turbonium1

instead of blathering - answer the question

originally posted by: Hyperboles

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

A descent is a descent, regardless of if the earth is flat or not. If you're flying over a sphere, you descend to land. If you're flying over a flat earth, you descend to land. If you descend in either case, you are going to impact the ground. You can point the nose up or down, and not climb or descend.

A sphere is a curved surface. A plane has to fly a curved path to follow above the surface, to maintain the same altitude.

Why would such a descent 'impact the ground' when it holds the same altitude above the sphere, throughout the flight?

Correct on both counts.
Compared to space yes the plane is descending all the time, but the VSI and Altimeter essentially are reading the height of the air column above it and in level flight over a curved surface, this is not changing, so the VSI AND ALTIMETER WILL STAY PUT EVEN IF THE PLANE IS DESCENDING COMPARED TO SPACE.
This to help you out with the most simplistic explanation.

The surface is not relevant, whether it is curved, or not curved, mountainous, or the Grand Canyon, an ocean, or a desert.....

What the VSI measures is atmospheric pressure, ON THE PLANE ITSELF, when in flight, at the specific moment.

Show me how the VSI would measure atmospheric pressure based on a 8 inch per mile squared curvature, 38,000 feet below it, which 'calibrates' it to read 'level' flight as being 'level' over curvature.....


Any sources you have, would be great....


I'll wait...

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

And where did anyone say it that there are lots of different pressure layers?

VSI measures pressure in the instrument, nowhere else.

Your complete lack of knowledge is getting badly exposed now. Give it up.

What 'pressure layers' hold planes around a curvature, and suggest this is being in 'level' flight?

The ones around the wings.

The VSI measures ascent, descent, and level flight. How do planes fly around a sphere without any descent? Because it's not a sphere at all.

Where is all that 'missing curvature' over a 6 hour flight?

In your mind.