Debunking Flat Earth and the Hollow Earth

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: amazing
I got it.

Let's handle the flat earth and hallow earth debate like we do climate change.

Scientists have amassed so much data proving the earth is actually round and not hallow that..."F scientists! Their all on George Soros payroll and are lying to us!" "Al Gore is just in it for the money...look how big his house is!"

LOL

What happened to 'global warming'?

Oh, right, they call it 'climate change' now!

Colder than normal weather is simply called 'climate change'. The very instant it''s a little bit warmer than normal, it suddenly changes into 'global warming'!!

Adding another subject to the list of things you don't understand. The average global temperature us rising. This causes climate change. Climate change does not automatically mean everyone gets a suntan.

Because, as we were all taught at schools, ships vanishing from sight is 'proof' of Earth's curvature!

How could ships sail beyond our view, if the Earth was flat? Earth must be curved, a sphere, being that every other 'planet' in our solar system is a sphere, too!

When they found stars which moved differently above the Earth, when compared to all the other stars above us, and/or perhaps a star seems to be brighter, compared to most stars, at certain times - that was a star of distinction.

All of the planets were stars. The observation of several more noticeable, distinct, of those stars, in comparison, somehow transformed into perfectly round ball-shaped objects!!

Who really could believe they saw Mars, Neptune, Pluto, etc., to such a degree? To suggest they are all those perfectly shaped spheres, at all, is totally absurd.

And they show paintings, of how the planets look???

How stupid it is, that anyone should doubt paintings of Neptune??

Buy yourself a telescope. Prove it to yourself. If you can't be bothered to put any effort in to prove your own arguments no-one needs to pay any attention to you.

Planes cannot fly level to a sphere, buddy. A sphere has no level surface.

Do you think planes can fly level to a curved surface?

Do planes following a line of latitude constantly have to bank?

I was taught that we once believed the Earth was flat because of ignorance, the Crusades, mythology, fables...


Ancients who believed we could fall over the edge of Earth, while hideous 'sea monsters' lurk the depths of uncharted, storm-filled oceans. Those who dare to sail it, shall never live to tell about it!

The teachers never mentioned they actually had maps of the entire Earth, as flat, with massive borders of ice, all around the Earth.

That would be actually teaching us their belief is NOT all based on ignorance, or myths....

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Beyond Creation
Forget using Science to prove anything. Science is cheifly based upon maths and maths is a flawed system; algebra, minus numbers etc. There are much better methods of understanding numbers used elsewhere.

What is causing the sun to rotate above a flat Earth? Why must is produce seasons? Why bother with pretend stars?

We are under illusions, that is a given. Don't worry about it

Well now I see your problem science isn't based on math its based on observation. Science at its most basic is when you do this heres what happens. Math is a tool we can use in our attempt at describing physical reality,however math does not always represent physical reality . Math trys to use logic to understand and often prove relationships between quantities and objects which may relate to no real phenomena. Science must be empirical, meaning it must be based on observations of nature, and it must be potentially falsifiable by new observations of nature. This is why in science you can say if we observe this it shows we are wrong. Thats why with flat earth the debate isn't if the earth flat it is what would we need to prove it was flat.

Now heres the problem people don't understand this distinction at all. For example if the earth was indeed flat we would need to be able to explain why planes cant just fly off the edge. We would need to explain how plate tectonics would work on a flat earth. We would need to know whats under the flat earth and what keeps it there. We would need to explain how we see stars and planets. I can keep going but you get the idea. Arguing against something does not prove something else in science you see this far to often where people attack science by trying to prove an observation wrong. Problem is the observation isn't wrong our conclusion may be wrong but then an alternative needs be provided.

So if the earth is flat you need to provide observations in the real world to bolster this claim. For example you could send a plane over the edge or laugh a probe to the sun showing its a lot closer then we thought. Maybe get video of the giant turtle that holds up the earth?

I once thought the same as you - how can a flat Earth be flown without reaching the edges?

Think of Earth as a disc.

True North of the disc is a single point - the exact center of the disc.

South is the direct opposite of center point. All outward of that point is South.


The nearest edge, is known to us as Antarctica. A wall of ice, beyond it.


A compass points to True North, as we know.

What point would North be, if Earth was a sphere?

If North was at the very center point, within a sphere, then every compass would point inward to Earth's core, as North. The compass wouldn't distinguish East or West, if North was at the core, in a sphere.


Which means a point has to be invented for your sphere to 'work' with a compass....of course!

'North' is atop a pole, which is an imaginary 'stick', going through the whole sphere, out to opposing points.

North is at one point of the 'stick', and South is at the opposite point of the 'stick', of the sphere.


That assumes there is such an imaginary stick that goes through the sphere, without any proof it does exist....but gravity doesn't need any proof either, and somehow it just 'exists'.....

The face of a compass is - a perfectly flat circle.

It makes perfect sense, when it's used in measuring over a perfectly flat, circular surface....

It doesn't make any sense measuring for a sphere, though.


A sphere is a 3-dimensional object. A compass is 2-dimensional. Like the flat Earth.

Think of what a compass is measuring -

It points to True North, from anywhere it is located on Earth.

Only on a flat Earth, though.

On a sphere, it cannot work.

A compass on the South Pole of a sphere would point directly towards the center of Earth, to the North Pole. It cannot point to the North, which means it doesn't work on a sphere. 'North' is not 'up, around half a sphere, and then to True North! A compass on a sphere at the South Pole cannot point to anywhere on Earth. It would be pointing up, into space!


Assume it 'works..... like everything else just 'works'!

Good grief.

A compass does not point to true north. A compass aligns itself with the magnetic field, which follows a more or less north-south orientation.

True north is the meeting of lines of longitude, and those lines of longitude meet at the rotational axis of our sphere.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
Good grief.

A compass does not point to true north. A compass aligns itself with the magnetic field, which follows a more or less north-south orientation.

True north is the meeting of lines of longitude, and those lines of longitude meet at the rotational axis of our sphere.

I remain convinced that he is spouting nonsense to get people to respond. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

a reply to: turbonium1

Just because you deny your own nature and the nature of life as we know it doesn't mean I have to.

We humans have always killed, whether in organized team sport fashion or not is a distinction completely unworthy of bothering with.

I personally have killed another human to prevent them from taking my life, I didn't want to do it I didn't seek it out but when push came to shove I fought I won and I god damn sure don't lose even a second of sleep over it... Sure sounds like a species built to kill when it's time to kill to me ...

As to your rant about them not teaching the true history and causes of war, that's because war is not a simple thing humans are not simple organisms and part of the way our species is specially adapted to fighting and killing is our ... Mental elasticity when it comes to justification of what we are doing about to do or have done on both an individual and societal level.

To conclude this I'm just going to point out that your entire last post has precisely F*** all to do with whether the earth is flat or not, and was quite frankly a distasteful and laughably transparent attempt at emotional manipulation and PC crybullying at it's worst...

Matter of fact, all the reasons humans will lie and obfuscate about war and violence are the same reason why we instinctively resist doing so when it comes to math and science. But honestly, that concept is pretty obviously so far out of your depth as to be useless to explain to you.

a reply to: turbonium1

You mean like the piri reis map (spelling... Oh damn spelled it right first try *fist pump* thanks anyway Google) which is from the 1500's but somehow shows the actual shape of Antarctica under the ice?

Oh wait no, you can't mean that because it seriously screws with your belief in the big bad liar NASA and the modern conspiracy!

originally posted by: turbonium1
Schools tell you what to think, you believe it, as if they know everything.

No. Schools teach you the tools to learn, investigate, perform analysis and conduct yourself in civilised society.

If you tried using your own brain for once, you'd know better.

I have and I can. I'm not an idiot. You are an idiot for thinking the world is flat when 100% of observable evidence says it is not flat and 0% says it is flat.

But you don't think for yourself, obviously.

You're an idiot. *IF* you genuinely believe the earth is flat, in 2018 and are not trolling - you, are a genuine moron.

Sad.

No, not really. I'm quite content with life and my ability to learn, analyse and investigate. You on the other hand, seem to sit in a basement or a cave, unaware the world has moved on 500 years.

a reply to: turbonium1

Dude have you ever flown or driven anything before?

Because this concept isn't hard to understand if you've driven a car where the alignment is off, flown anything including a remote control thing ever, or especially tried to get a boat or other water craft from point a to point b over open water.

Even assuming that you had to down stick constantly to maintain a level flight path in early pre computer airplanes it still does nothing for your argument. Those planes were fairly squirrelly little beasties which didn't trim out nearly as well as modern aircraft do.... Yet, even with this being the case autopilot systems did in fact come about before computers were small enough to put in aircraft!

What you keep insisting are excuses on everyone else's part are, in reality, us pointing out the massive gaps in your knowledge of every subject you bring up.

The sad reality is that you're so confused by this because you're extremely ignorant of even the basic knowledge you need to effectively think for yourself and come to sound conclusions which match the real world.

Think about this, if you were even 25% right about all the things you say are lies and deception and taught wrong etc .... How could the modern technological world we live in possibly function?

It couldn't!

You've thrown out basically every bit of science back to ancient Rome... They had chariots and lead pipe plumbing then... How have we built technology that's so far beyond anything they could have possibly imagined if all the scientific knowledge etc since then has been lies and deception? It just doesn't make sense.

This fact alone should be enough to make you first seriously question and then discard the assertions that you are making as untrue!

a reply to: turbonium1


Here save up all your cents/pennies and go book yourself a trip

Antarctic-Peninsula

Then you can do the following

OTL32-19. The Antarctic Peninsula Basecamp Ortelius cruise offers you a myriad of ways to explore and enjoy the Antarctic Region. This expedition allows you to hike, snowshoe, kayak, go mountaineering, and even camp out under the Southern Polar skies.

Yes it a special pass to get past the 10,000 patrol boats required to keep flaties away the the vast ice wall round the Earth.

Starnge people like you and the flatties say all science is wrong yet the internet seems to work to get your BS out strange don't you think.

originally posted by: roguetechie
a reply to: turbonium1

Just because you deny your own nature and the nature of life as we know it doesn't mean I have to.

We humans have always killed, whether in organized team sport fashion or not is a distinction completely unworthy of bothering with.

I personally have killed another human to prevent them from taking my life, I didn't want to do it I didn't seek it out but when push came to shove I fought I won and I god damn sure don't lose even a second of sleep over it... Sure sounds like a species built to kill when it's time to kill to me ...

As to your rant about them not teaching the true history and causes of war, that's because war is not a simple thing humans are not simple organisms and part of the way our species is specially adapted to fighting and killing is our ... Mental elasticity when it comes to justification of what we are doing about to do or have done on both an individual and societal level.

To conclude this I'm just going to point out that your entire last post has precisely F*** all to do with whether the earth is flat or not, and was quite frankly a distasteful and laughably transparent attempt at emotional manipulation and PC crybullying at it's worst...

Matter of fact, all the reasons humans will lie and obfuscate about war and violence are the same reason why we instinctively resist doing so when it comes to math and science. But honestly, that concept is pretty obviously so far out of your depth as to be useless to explain to you.

Someone else started talking about this issue, before I replied, so look back, before you spew any other nonsense. It is a side issue, and you replied on it, as more of a personal attack than anything.

Your example shows the very opposite instinct. To survive. To want to kill you for no reason is NOT an act of human instinct, unlike your actions were. His actions were twisted, insane, unnatural - the very OPPOSITE of normal human instinct.


Some wars appear to be very complicated, but these complications usually appear well after the war starts.
Wars are always created, in the very same way. Always have been, and always will be, created in the same way.

The people don't want war, they don't benefit from war, and the only way people will fight in a war is for their SURVIVAL. Their safety. Their freedom. It is not to kill people out of some 'instinct' within us! Total bs!

War in Iraq was for 'protecting our freedoms'. America's 'leaders' say that Afghanistan and Iraq wish to take away America's 'freedoms'. And America will not stand around waiting for their 'freedoms' to be taken away. All the terrorists live over there, like Bin Laden, the evil 'mastermind' of 9/11!!

That's why America started war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Even though not one American knew anyone living in those two countries, and certainly were not attacked by anyone there, or harmed in any way, or personally threatened by anyone there, or faced certain death at knife-point by anyone from there....that meant nothing at all, to the American soldiers.

Soldiers fight anyone they are told to fight, and that's exactly what soldiers will always do, forever.

They make up any bs reasons for a war, it doesn't matter if they know it's all bs anymore, because American soldiers still fight for their American 'leaders'.

"Mental elasticity' means stretching one's mind to justify insane wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and all other wars.

They don't need every American to believe it, they already have more than enough right now, thanks!


And it is a sad thing to see.

Sorry again for going off topic, this is the last I'll say on the subject .

originally posted by: roguetechie
a reply to: turbonium1

Dude have you ever flown or driven anything before?

Because this concept isn't hard to understand if you've driven a car where the alignment is off, flown anything including a remote control thing ever, or especially tried to get a boat or other water craft from point a to point b over open water.

Even assuming that you had to down stick constantly to maintain a level flight path in early pre computer airplanes it still does nothing for your argument. Those planes were fairly squirrelly little beasties which didn't trim out nearly as well as modern aircraft do.... Yet, even with this being the case autopilot systems did in fact come about before computers were small enough to put in aircraft!

What you keep insisting are excuses on everyone else's part are, in reality, us pointing out the massive gaps in your knowledge of every subject you bring up.

The sad reality is that you're so confused by this because you're extremely ignorant of even the basic knowledge you need to effectively think for yourself and come to sound conclusions which match the real world.

Think about this, if you were even 25% right about all the things you say are lies and deception and taught wrong etc .... How could the modern technological world we live in possibly function?

It couldn't!

You've thrown out basically every bit of science back to ancient Rome... They had chariots and lead pipe plumbing then... How have we built technology that's so far beyond anything they could have possibly imagined if all the scientific knowledge etc since then has been lies and deception? It just doesn't make sense.

This fact alone should be enough to make you first seriously question and then discard the assertions that you are making as untrue!

A made up idea of our world has been functioning fine, for a long time now, so it obviously DOES work!

Gravity makes everything in the made up world appear to work perfectly. The fact that gravity is nothing more than a non-existent, non-proven, ever-revised, THEORY? That is what "just doesn't make sense"!

Every scientist in the world knows gravity IS ONLY A THEORY!

Science is based on evidence, and proof, and facts.

A theory is meaningless until it is proven true, with facts, and evidence, to support it.

If not, a theory has no validity, no value, no worth.


So when all these scientists talk about gravity as if it were a proven fact, that it even existed, is utterly contemptible. It goes against the very basic purpose of all sciences, in fact.


Your entire argument is based on a non-existent, non-proven, IDEA, that someone came up with, that others have tweaked here and there, while still it remains a THEORY, an IDEA, to 'explain' all the massive absurdities of a spherical Earth!

True Science does not support a theory as if it were fact, and nor do I. Because it is NOT a fact.

I first looked into this thinking the Earth was round, not flat.

I thought scientific evidence was going to prove the Earth was round, not flat, because scientists claim the Earth is round, and scientists would not say the Earth was round without PROOF, right?

Wrong.

originally posted by: turbonium1

True Science does not support a theory as if it were fact, and nor do I.

Yet here you are supporting the most stupid idea out there.

a reply to: turbonium1

So...

What keeps us on the earth in your world?

And why do celestial bodies like the moon and the sun... and the "lights" go "around" said earth?

When flat-earth believers say there isnt gravity how do they explain movement of anything? What makes things fall? Why arent they just floating still in air?
I'm curious what an argument against gravity would be.

originally posted by: seagull

Lol good one.

Tho looks like is there a misconception with the flat earthers and others too, about the curvature of the earth and how much.
A flight of 4000 miles staring at the north pole and flight path exactly parallel to the horizontal radius of the earth at the equator, the earth will curve away by 4000 miles .
So does anyone still believe that the aircraft can fly a curved path above the surface, without pivoting the nose, progressively, downward, about the COG?

a reply to: Hyperboles

That equates to about 211000 lengths of a 737. Think about it.

a reply to: Hyperboles

One must realize the real mistake in that pic is that its actually a Minecraft earth

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: turbonium1

So...

What keeps us on the earth in your world?

And why do celestial bodies like the moon and the sun... and the "lights" go "around" said earth?

He's not going to answer your question. He's trolling us all with his nonsense.

a reply to: wmd_2008

And not one of those 10,000 boats which are needed to patrol the ice wall sailors have never come out and told us about it.
It is pure idiocy to believe in a flat earth.