Teacher with Gun in Custody after Barricading self in Classroom

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: burgerbuddy

There is literally nothing that will stop assholes doing what they do best, there are 7 billion people, the law of averages dictates some of them will be assholes.

Yeah so you want Govts to take care of it? or should everyone have a hand?

Oh sure, there will be Talibans and Nazi's and planeo whackjobs but who you want to deal with them?

They gonna hide in their trunks or start blazing away?

Too many people anyway.

Sounds like you have found your calling.

The U. S needs you, time to leave Hong Kong move back to the U. S and go all Walker Texas ranger on the bad guys.

originally posted by: rickymouse
When I go out hunting and see a buck, I picture someone who pissed me off on the deer. I kill the deer and feel lots better.

I find your statement rather concerning, especially the feeling lots better part.

Regarding the op. I think the timing especially is suspicious. We should also wonder how often in the past have teachers done something like this? I would hazard a guess and say it is very rare, which would add to the timing being suspicious.

There was a post suggesting bullet proof uniforms. I read an account that one of the students in a classroom, when rescued, was actually wearing a bullet proof vest.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Arming teachers is a dumb as arming students, there really is no debating it.

There certainly is room for debate.

Your statement pre-supposes that the ability of a teacher to handle a firearm safely and maturely is equal to that of a child's ability to do so. Since I have heard no major objections to police carrying and using firearms, I can only assume this belief is based on the teachers' occupation alone. Yet, that opinion itself is more dangerous than allowing teachers to be armed. It presents an opportunity for those entering the workforce, which typically happens at a young age, to choose whether or not they wish to be armed throughout life. If one wishes to be allowed firearm access, one need only choose police work as an occupation; if one chooses teaching, one is essentially giving up the right to self-protection. The result would be that the most violent, the ones who place such an extreme value on firearm ownership, would become law enforcement, while only those who care nothing about self-defense would become teachers. We would have a very restrictive set of viewpoints in education and a very dangerous group who are enforcing the law. Neither dynamic is conducive to a civilized society.

The only actual difference between a teacher (or any other class of adult worker) carrying a gun for self-protection and a police officer carrying a gun is that the policeman has a job which requires the gun. A carpenter has a job which requires a hammer, yet is is quite possible that others are just as adept with a hammer as he is. Similarly, it is just as likely that non-police are often just as adept with a gun as the policeman; indeed, I know of several people who can out-shoot most policeman based on speed, accuracy, safety, or any other dynamic one could name.

In simpler terms, your narrative is false.

TheRedneck

a reply to: liveandlearn

The guy was a teacher, let alone armed? Trump has been very quiet on this, What is a teacher decides to go postal when the class is unruly?

Good old Trump, top graduate of the Wile E. Coyote school of excellence.

a reply to: CthulhuMythos

At least I admit it, most people do not. I will always try to talk my way out of a fight, I would never shoot someone unless they were threatening my family or my own safety. I have killed deer and animals to eat. They were no threat to me. I would not hesitate to kill an armed person who broke into our house when I was at home. If I saw a gun, I would not wait till they shot at me.

So what disturbs you, the fact that I can and would kill to protect my family or the fact that I would rather take out my frustrations on a deer that I eat than on people who have wronged me. I was a big guy, I could have beat the crap out of those people but I am not that kind of person. I always tried to talk my way out of conflict, that is because I believed in other people having a right to beliefs of their own, even if those beliefs are not what I consider appropriate.

originally posted by: WarPig1939
Wow. That is pathetic. So predictable. Now they are literally engineering crimes out of thin air to sway public opinion. Do really live in Soviet Russia?

LOLWUT?

Do you think the Soviets gave a fig about swaying public opinion?

I don't know if this has been posted here yet, but wanted to provide some up-to-date information about this "teacher".

Georgia teacher had guns taken away from him after he set car afire, sheriff says

A Georgia teacher accused of firing a handgun in his classroom Wednesday had three rifles taken away from him after setting the family car ablaze at his home two years ago, a sheriff’s report stated.

Authorities responsible for protecting the school, Dalton High School, where Jesse Randal Davidson worked, said they were not aware of the episode until this week, The Associated Press reported.

Davidson was taken to the hospital for a mental evaluation and his rifles were seized for safe-keeping after he torched the Mitsubishi Outlander on Aug. 13, 2016.

Oh... interesting......but wait, there's more....about that incident when he set his car on fire in his driveway....

Davidson's adult son, Johnny, told the deputy that his father "was not acting like himself and was sitting down with a rifle in the back yard watching the vehicle on fire."

Davidson’s son was able to talk his father into giving up the gun and two other weapons were also seized.

In another incident, Davidson reportedly walked into the lobby of the Dalton police headquarters and allegedly made up a story about someone who was murdered. Detectives could not verify Davidson’s claim and he was taken to the hospital after he expressed thoughts about killing himself.

In another incident, school employees and a police officer began searching Dalton High in January 2017 after Davidson went missing. He was later found sitting on the curb along a street a few blocks from the campus, being propped up by two school staff members, police said.

So, over the course of a few years, this man did all this, was taken for a psyche evaluation, filed a false police report, and had to have his rifles taken away, but he was deemed OK to teach children on a daily basis?

Really school system, this man was OK to teach children?????

How many more time will we see this information come out AFTER THE FACT when guns are involved to see that the system in place did NOT followup on prior incidents.

But, I'm not OK to own a firearm to protect myself and family?!?
I am supposed to depend upon these jokers in government to protect us???

I think not.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Sounds like the same old, same old and law enforcement's hands are tied.

But school officials might not have been aware that his guns had been taken the day his family car was burned.

"I very seriously doubt that they knew about that incident," Dade County Sheriff's Sgt. Chad Payne said Friday.

"It resulted in him being transported for a mental evaluation," Payne said. "Once he's in that ambulance and on the way to the hospital, his medical care becomes private so I doubt that they would know anything about it."

The saddest part is he was not court ordered into long term inpatient treatment before all of this.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Krakatoa

Sounds like the same old, same old and law enforcement's hands are tied.

But school officials might not have been aware that his guns had been taken the day his family car was burned.

"I very seriously doubt that they knew about that incident," Dade County Sheriff's Sgt. Chad Payne said Friday.

"It resulted in him being transported for a mental evaluation," Payne said. "Once he's in that ambulance and on the way to the hospital, his medical care becomes private so I doubt that they would know anything about it."

The saddest part is he was not court ordered into long term inpatient treatment before all of this.

EXACTLY. He was brought in after making a false police report....and with his history, he should have been under a 72 at least.

That would have set off the chain of events to disqualify him of firearm ownership. All stuff already on the books. I have said repeated times, if the existing process and laws in these cases were followed, and enforced, then it is in all likelihood many people will still be alive.

But no....and I wonder why this trend is happening and being broadcast via the media?

Is there an agenda afoot?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Krakatoa

But school officials might not have been aware that his guns had been taken the day his family car was burned.

"I very seriously doubt that they knew about that incident," Dade County Sheriff's Sgt. Chad Payne said Friday.

"It resulted in him being transported for a mental evaluation," Payne said. "Once he's in that ambulance and on the way to the hospital, his medical care becomes private so I doubt that they would know anything about it."

The saddest part is he was not court ordered into long term inpatient treatment before all of this.

That sounds awfully expensive though... Who would have paid for that?

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Krakatoa

But school officials might not have been aware that his guns had been taken the day his family car was burned.

"I very seriously doubt that they knew about that incident," Dade County Sheriff's Sgt. Chad Payne said Friday.

"It resulted in him being transported for a mental evaluation," Payne said. "Once he's in that ambulance and on the way to the hospital, his medical care becomes private so I doubt that they would know anything about it."

The saddest part is he was not court ordered into long term inpatient treatment before all of this.

That sounds awfully expensive though... Who would have paid for that?

Possibly the children in his class?

I guess the price of a child's life is quantifiable to you?

How deplorable of you.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

Is there an agenda afoot?

No. Sorry I don't go that far down the rabbit hole. In this case the culprit was a lack of communication between law enforcement and the school and medical privacy. That's issues enough without inventing absurd theories these things are orchestrated by anyone.

The man kept crying out for help with his actions and there simply is no way in our system to deal with this in reasonable way. The pattern should have been recognized, but then law enforcement is not in the mental health industry. You could also lay blame on family and friends who should have been working to have court ordered into treatment.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Krakatoa

Is there an agenda afoot?

No. Sorry I don't go that far down the rabbit hole. In this case the culprit was a lack of communication between law enforcement and the school and medical privacy. That's issues enough without inventing absurd theories these things are orchestrated by anyone.

The man kept crying out for help with his actions and there simply is no way in our system to deal with this in reasonable way. The pattern should have been recognized, but then law enforcement is not in the mental health industry. You could also lay blame on family and friends who should have been working to have court ordered into treatment.

Perhaps you missed that I did mention the process as well. You are fixating on the LEO angle, when that, IMO, is only one variable in this equation.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Krakatoa

But school officials might not have been aware that his guns had been taken the day his family car was burned.

"I very seriously doubt that they knew about that incident," Dade County Sheriff's Sgt. Chad Payne said Friday.

"It resulted in him being transported for a mental evaluation," Payne said. "Once he's in that ambulance and on the way to the hospital, his medical care becomes private so I doubt that they would know anything about it."

The saddest part is he was not court ordered into long term inpatient treatment before all of this.

That sounds awfully expensive though... Who would have paid for that?

Depends. What are human lives worth exactly and what does dealing with the problems after the fact cost? Somehow I think the cost to society would be far less if people were educated that mental illness, is and illness just like cancer or any other illness and that it needs the same attention.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Krakatoa

Is there an agenda afoot?

No. Sorry I don't go that far down the rabbit hole. In this case the culprit was a lack of communication between law enforcement and the school and medical privacy. That's issues enough without inventing absurd theories these things are orchestrated by anyone.

The man kept crying out for help with his actions and there simply is no way in our system to deal with this in reasonable way. The pattern should have been recognized, but then law enforcement is not in the mental health industry. You could also lay blame on family and friends who should have been working to have court ordered into treatment.

Perhaps you missed that I did mention the process as well. You are fixating on the LEO angle, when that, IMO, is only one variable in this equation.

No, I understood. The process and the enforcement of laws is flawed, but not due to an agenda IMO. The process includes humans who make mistakes or let their own biases interfere with doing things right.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Krakatoa

But school officials might not have been aware that his guns had been taken the day his family car was burned.

"I very seriously doubt that they knew about that incident," Dade County Sheriff's Sgt. Chad Payne said Friday.

"It resulted in him being transported for a mental evaluation," Payne said. "Once he's in that ambulance and on the way to the hospital, his medical care becomes private so I doubt that they would know anything about it."

The saddest part is he was not court ordered into long term inpatient treatment before all of this.

That sounds awfully expensive though... Who would have paid for that?

Depends. What are human lives worth exactly and what does dealing with the problems after the fact cost? Somehow I think the cost to society would be far less if people were educated that mental illness, is and illness just like cancer or any other illness and that it needs the same attention.

Considering police are often on the front line dealing with mental health issues they should be receiving a reasonable amount of training in that department, in fact there should be ongoing mental health education throughout their careers, that would be a start at least.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Krakatoa

Is there an agenda afoot?

No. Sorry I don't go that far down the rabbit hole. In this case the culprit was a lack of communication between law enforcement and the school and medical privacy. That's issues enough without inventing absurd theories these things are orchestrated by anyone.

The man kept crying out for help with his actions and there simply is no way in our system to deal with this in reasonable way. The pattern should have been recognized, but then law enforcement is not in the mental health industry. You could also lay blame on family and friends who should have been working to have court ordered into treatment.

Perhaps you missed that I did mention the process as well. You are fixating on the LEO angle, when that, IMO, is only one variable in this equation.

No, I understood. The process and the enforcement of laws is flawed, but not due to an agenda IMO. The process includes humans who make mistakes or let their own biases interfere with doing things right.

Think on a broader scale. In each of these most recent incidents, the process failed at many levels, right? However, that is not the target of fixing the issue to prevent another one....is it? No.....the target is the tool. Ban the gun....take it away. Instead of analyzing each of these and fixing the broken process first. Because addressing existing process/laws does not further an agenda to strip the people of their 2nd Amendment right to self protection.

Does it?

Why is the process not being discussed?

Why does the cost always come in on response to fixing something (as the above poster claimed)?

What has been the cost of this misdirected agenda to take away the guns from the citizens?

When viewed as a fabric of events, the image slowly becomes clear. Looking at a single thread does not reveal the pattern of that fabric, does it?

a reply to: Blaine91555

I agree 100%.

I just don't think the majority of society would readily accept the idea of their tax dollars being spent on treating mental illness... Its still an extremely taboo subject, for the most part.

a reply to: Krakatoa

The agenda of those who want guns gone is entirely visible. I thought you meant some kind of secret hidden agenda. My bad.

I think that is being discussed in many threads here right now. Too many in fact on the same topic.

Problems are solved one step at a time and for starters I think mental health is the elephant in the room. Clearly that's the issue in this case.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Krakatoa

But school officials might not have been aware that his guns had been taken the day his family car was burned.

"I very seriously doubt that they knew about that incident," Dade County Sheriff's Sgt. Chad Payne said Friday.

"It resulted in him being transported for a mental evaluation," Payne said. "Once he's in that ambulance and on the way to the hospital, his medical care becomes private so I doubt that they would know anything about it."

The saddest part is he was not court ordered into long term inpatient treatment before all of this.

That sounds awfully expensive though... Who would have paid for that?

Depends. What are human lives worth exactly and what does dealing with the problems after the fact cost? Somehow I think the cost to society would be far less if people were educated that mental illness, is and illness just like cancer or any other illness and that it needs the same attention.

Considering police are often on the front line dealing with mental health issues they should be receiving a reasonable amount of training in that department, in fact there should be ongoing mental health education throughout their careers, that would be a start at least.

I like that idea. We can't expect them to be expert, but they should understand when further action is needed and the problem is not as much criminal as it is a mental health issue.