Pence: Legal [child murder] will end with this generation

a reply to: GraffikPleasure

Guns are for protection and are a right, period, end of story.

Citizens generally don't want war. More money for the military is closely related to own a gun, for protection. We should not use it for greed etc. But politicians on both sides want war, they may say they don't, but both sides do. They argue about HOW. Just like they argue how to take your rights, fast, or slowly...for another time...

everyone has the right to protect one's life, their liberty, their possessions, their family, the integrity of their body. all I am suggesting is that right also extends to women..
when she finds out that the fetus she is carrying is severely deformed and has little chance of surviving even with extensive (not to mention costly) medical treatment and care for years on end, she should be able to protect her family from such proverty that those medical bills would create. of course, there are things that could be done to alleviate this perceived threat she sees, but then the conservatives don't even want her pregnancy to be covered in their insurance pool... she should have to pay extra for that coverage!!
if the family is heavily relying on her earnings to meet their basic needs she just might see her current and potential earnings at risk.... again, self protection... again, there are ways to alleviate this fear, but that isn't gonna happen anytime soon... society still sees the father as being very dependable employee, and thus are more apt to see him more worthy... a mother is seen as being someone with a dual role in which the employer will more than likely take second place.
and every pregnancy comes with some risk to the health and well being of the mother. which for some reason, it seems that that risk is increasing if we are to look at the rising rate of deaths related to childbirth in this country.
and, want to talk about liberty for a moment??

a women happens to fall down a flight of stairs and miscarries. she claims she got dizzy, but isn't believed. it is more believable that she didn't want the baby so much that just just threw herself down a flight of stairs!! she is thrown in jail. she eventually gets out, not because it's found that the idea that she threw herself down the stairs on purpose isn't provable, but rather it's proven that the child wasn't at the stage of development that was claimed.

a women eats a roll that has poppy seeds on it, then she goes to a doctor's appt. he does a drug test on her, which comes back positive... she is thrown in jail... for eating a roll!!!

there are stories of women being jailed for having miscarriages. there are stories of women being forced to have c-sections against their will, one even died, just as her doctor predicted she probably would.
being pregnant is a risk to a women's liberty!!!

Women who got pregnant by accident.. how did that happen I wonder? It's called responsibility. Now, if you cannot support the kid, put it up for adoption (my wife and I were just approved to until she got pregnant).

gee were you gonna adopt one of the many, many adoptable kids that are in the foster care system, or were you gonna pay the premium price and get that perfect little baby? ya know, at least in my state there seems to be quite a few perks to adopting kids out of the foster care system and it really costs very little money to do so.

as far as how did it happen?? well, outside of it involving a sexual act, I couldn't telll you. maybe the birth control just didn't work this time around, it happens. would like to point out though that the same people who seem to want to take the option of abortion off the table, and many are as kind as you are, they have a problem with it even when the mom's life is at risk... also seem to have a problem with maternity care being including in insurance policies and they also seem to have a problem with birth control being included in those policies.

to be honest, considering all the risks I pointed out, especially those involved with the loss of liberty, I kind of wish women would start seeing those risks as not being worth the sex, unless of course, they really want the baby.
and I didn't even go through the nightmare some women have faced in the catholic hospital systems...

it's not worth it... not in today's environment!

a reply to: Reydelsol

If it is murder. There is no “common sense” reason to do it..


If it is not murder it isn’t really anyone’s buisness.. imho..

I think that is something people seem to gloss over..


If it is murder then the crazies , most violent extremists are right..

a reply to: JimTSpock

There is a fair step in the chain to differentiate with at conception.

So that arguments easily rebutted.


Your right over all.. just that little piece doesn’t work.

a reply to: introvert

bwaahahaha

never mentioned freedoms did I ?

your "interpretation" is my point !!

good job

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: introvert

bwaahahaha

never mentioned freedoms did I ?

your "interpretation" is my point !!

good job

You never mentioned interpretation either.

You wouldn't be letting your ass grow its own set of vocal chords, would you?

And of course you wouldn't mention freedom. It is antithetical to your authoritarian ideology.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Woodcarver
I’m picturing a big white van with blacked out windows that says free fishy’s on the side of it.

It actually says 'Salvation Inside'.

Does it come with Jesus Juice to wash the fishies down?

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
a reply to: JBurns

What is the difference between abortion and murder?

Time.

Fred..

Conservatives pretend to care about unborn children because it's a potential soldier, another cog in the machine.

Ever notice how conservatives never have the same approach when it comes to children killed by drone strikes (funded by us taxypayers), or children that starve to death?

Hint: they don't care.

Would it make you feel better if I said progressives don't care about them, either?

Absolutely and categorically false, which is rather typical actually. I do care, about all life.

Fred..

I hope the GOP campaigns on the anti choice ticket in 18.

a reply to: xuenchen

Yeah because like others in this thread you only care about your own freedoms not women's makes you a hypocrite also.

a reply to: JBurns

You're definitely over generalizing a bit here. You basically are saying that everyone that doesn't agree with you is a deranged socialist. That's not true. I disagree quite a bit with you and I actually voted Libertarian this past election. What does that make me?

There has to be balance in life. Some rugged invidualists and some that want to help people. We can have freedom and Compassion at the same time. You have to be careful though, we don't want "old testament" laws in the US, that is basically Sharia Law. We know we don't want that, that means Less freedom.

You then need to define abortion. Are contraceptives okay? Is the morning after pill okay? Is an abortion for health reasons where the mother is going to die okay? What about Rape and incest...is that okay? That's not God's will, by the way.

And here's a real truth nugget. Most politicians don't care about abortion one way or the other. They use it as a term to get votes. You say your pro life if your a republican and you say your pro choice if your a democrat, but generally neither politician changes anything once elected. It's just word to distinguish a republican from a democrat.

And if you were really going to stop Abortions, you would find out the cause of most abortions and start there. Is it lack of contraceptives, lack of sex education, lack of support for the unwed mother etc etc etc.

So is any anti freedom/choice person going to tell me how you are going to stop women have abortions? Or are you just blowing smoke out if your arses?.

I just love how the right tells the world they care about these unborn children and then when they are born, not their problem. Also how they tell everyone who will listen, they are for personal freedom just not women's.

Prohibition doesn't work.

The war on drugs, for example.

Banning abortion = more illegal, unregulated abortions = less safety for women.

And at the same time if the stoneage amongst you also want to discourage birth control and sex education in schools, all you're doing is forcing people who make mistakes into:

a) having dangerous backstreet abortions or
b) bringing a child into the world which will potentially be impoverished and/or end up in care.

When will you people study the statistics and learn from facts and experience instead of preaching evangelical nonsense.

Focus on sex ed and birth control. The rest will follow.

You do not have the right to dictate to anyone what they do with their body. Period.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Reydelsol

So your answer is yes.

Okay.

So answer me this.

Would you look a rape victim in the eye and tell her that she has to risk her mental and physical health carrying a rape baby to full term ?

Would you tell her that tough she is pregnant, that is her fault for getting raped and she should just accept the after effects?

Tell me who looks after the rape baby? The rape victim? Should she be forced to bring up a symbol of her violation and trauma? Should she have to spend her money and energy bringing up a child she had no choice in?
Or should it go to the state for adoption?

You want to play the question game then answer mine.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Reydelsol

If it is murder. There is no “common sense” reason to do it..

Same with all murder, self defense is a acceptable common sense reason.

If bringing a baby to full term risk the mothers life, then aborting is common sense.

If a woman is raped and so forced to carry a baby, then aborting to avoid the possible physical and mental health effects is self defense.

Its the same principle as inviting someone into your home and killing them without reason (illegal)

Inviting someone into your home , them getting violent and you killing them in self defense (legal)

or

Someone breaking into your home and you killing them (legal)

a reply to: introvert

Don’t get baited by people who are only trolling. Better to ignore them.

a reply to: Reydelsol

I don't think a child should be punished for the crimes of the parent.


Like DACA.

Have a nice day.

a reply to: JBurns

Can we ban pornos as well? And... and... and hot skirts or fun in general? Puhleeez!?!

#Stiffiocracy

a reply to: amazing

You're definitely over generalizing a bit here. You basically are saying that everyone that doesn't agree with you is a deranged socialist. That's not true. I disagree quite a bit with you and I actually voted Libertarian this past election. What does that make me?

Thank you, I agree. Guess it makes non Right leaning Libertarians deranged socialists, which is hardly so.

There has to be balance in life. Some rugged invidualists and some that want to help people. We can have freedom and Compassion at the same time. You have to be careful though, we don't want "old testament" laws in the US, that is basically Sharia Law. We know we don't want that, that means Less freedom.

You then need to define abortion. Are contraceptives okay? Is the morning after pill okay? Is an abortion for health reasons where the mother is going to die okay? What about Rape and incest...is that okay? That's not God's will, by the way.

And here's a real truth nugget. Most politicians don't care about abortion one way or the other. They use it as a term to get votes. You say your pro life if your a republican and you say your pro choice if your a democrat, but generally neither politician changes anything once elected. It's just word to distinguish a republican from a democrat.

Yes, exactly, it's all about division. Perfect division that everyone has comments about, but no one can agree on.

And if you were really going to stop Abortions, you would find out the cause of most abortions and start there. Is it lack of contraceptives, lack of sex education, lack of support for the unwed mother etc etc etc.

Plus, let's stop all rapes, all incest, all genetic defects, all complications for mother and or fetus. Best of luck there. Eugenics, and a brave New World Utopia may make that need obsolete.

Until then, there needs to be more people willing to adopt if Pence gets his wish. More support for fostering children from more psychiatric hospitals(fund them as well-that worked great for Pennhurst and Letchworth Village /sarc) built, to more money coming into social services for parents who cannot afford children, including the ones who have ongoing health issues.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Reydelsol

I don't think a child should be punished for the crimes of the parent.


Like DACA.

Have a nice day.

But the woman has not committed any crimes. Yet your expect her to risk her own body and mental well being.

I m guessing you would kill a home intruder if they broke in to your home?

So surely a rape victim is allowed to defend her own body from a uninvited intruder?

And you never answered by question either. Who brings that child up? Do your force the mother or does the state?

You make it sound simplistic but its not.


Why you bring DACA up I don't know......It has no relation nor do I particularly agree with it. Unless your trying to make a petty partisan statement by implying I am some liberal.