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The Case for Roswell: Part I.

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posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 10:44 AM

This is the first part of a series of (lengthy, so apologies I advance) posts I plan to make regarding the Roswell case. Yes, I know there are plenty of threads here dealing with Roswell, but I’m trying to take a systematic approach to showing what many believe happened, and why the Air Force story doesn’t hold water…

PART I: The Air Force Report: Case Closed. How Mogul can NOT be the culprit.
PART II: The Debris Analysis. I-Beams or Balsa Wood with flowery tape? He-said, she-said?
PART III: (Forthcoming, separate post) The Timeline of Events. What happened, when, and where.
More parts to follow…

Roswell, NM. The incident long cited as THE UFO case of all time. Certainly, the name is synonymous with the incident. There’s been a lot said both for and against the crash being either an alien craft (or two) or a top secret balloon experiment. One thing that is undeniable, is that a crash of SOMETHING did occur. At least this much is even admitted by the military. So the question is of course, WHAT crashed?

First, we have the last official version of the explanation from the Air Force. This was in July, 1994, and can be seen here: Frustrated with the publicity still surrounding Roswell, the Air Force releases another “last word” report on the incident.

This is one of the first claims:

The "unusual" military activities in the New Mexico desert were high altitude research balloon launch and recovery operations. Reports of military units that always seemed to arrive shortly after the crash of a flying saucer to retrieve the saucer and "crew," were actually accurate descriptions of Air Force personnel engaged in anthropomorphic dummy recovery operations

Going into more detail, they clarify and reiterate that a Mogul balloon is what crashed. The following, is actually from a well-known skeptic site, illustrating the purpose of Mogul.

Its classified purpose was to try to develop a way to monitor possible Soviet nuclear detonations with the use of low-frequency acoustic microphones placed at high altitudes. No other means of monitoring the nuclear activities of a closed country like the USSR was yet available, and the project was given a high priority. One of the NYU tasks was the development of constant-level balloons for placing the acoustic microphones aloft. After some preliminary flights in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, in April 1947, which failed due to high winds, the project moved to New Mexico.
In June and early July 1947, numerous NYU balloon flights were launched from Alamogordo Army Air Field in New Mexico. Some of these flights consisted of very long trains containing up to two dozen neoprene sounding balloons, having a total length of more than 600 feet.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see where anthropomorphic dummies come into play in such an experiment. So, right off the bat, we’re faced with an apparent lie. The USAF is using two completely different and unrelated experiments to explain the Roswell incident. Indeed, the tests involving anthropomorphic dummies were years later:

The Roswell Report: Case Closed, which deals almost exclusively with claims of alien bodies. The report’s primary discovery was that actual military activities in New Mexico during the 1950s closely resembled the reports of spacecraft crashes that emerged decades later. One of these activities, Project High Dive, involved lifelike anthropomorphic dummies loaded with sensors mounted in cages that were dropped out of the sky and later collected by caravans of military trucks and equipment. Some landed near Roswell, with witnesses transforming the cages into escape capsules from a mother ship, and the dummies, clothed in flight suits, into aliens. UFO author Kevin Randle notes that in 1954 there was one kind of alien reported—short humanoids in space suits. [17] That year marked the start of Project High Dive.

Perhaps the Air Force should have checked their calendars, as the Roswell crash occurred in 1947, YEARS before the early 50’s.
Indeed, this was project High Dive, not Mogul. Likewise, in all my years of looking into Roswell, this is the first I’ve heard of “escape capsules”, an obvious attempt at establishing an air of ridicule to the accounts. Not to mention, they briefly include the notes of a prominent UFO researcher, but then fail to mention that the anthropomorphic dummies were regular human-sized, which of course would then destroy the “short humanoids in space suits”note.
Now the apparent lie has become an obvious one. You can’t just stick the two different tests from different decades together and use that as a viable explanation. It doesn’t wash.
There are other problems with the Mogul cover story of course. For this, we’ll look at the items used in Mogul.
Here’s a schematic of the Mogul tests…

Sure looks like a “flying disc” to me! How about you? Here’s a photo of a similar reflector…made from tin foil and balsa wood such as the Mogul ones.

Personally, I’m no expert on crashed debris, but I’d sure like to know how plausible it is that the highest ranking intelligence officer at the base, Major Jesse Marcel, would mistake balsa wood and tin foil for the remains of an unidentified craft, wouldn’t you? I’m sure you or I would easily be able to make that identification, so I feel pretty confident in assuming that he could easily discern this as well. And yet, Marcel stated it quite differently.

Major Jesse Marcel, intelligence officer of the 509th Bomb Group based at Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF), inspected the site shortly after Brazel reported the debris to the Chaves County sheriff in Roswell. Marcel described a big field: debris ". . . about as far as you could see—three quarters [of a] mile long and two hundred to three hundred feet wide." It was "scattered all over—just like you’d explode something above the ground and [it would] just fall to the ground." The shortest pieces were "four or five inches. It was [as if it were from] something of some greater area that had been together." (which incidentally, has some excellent info for how it couldn’t be a Mogul balloon, as well.)
So, when did the balloon coverup go into motion? The answer is, almost immediately. Before any mention of Mogul (this wouldn’t be till years later), the military stuck with a basic weather balloon story. After getting in hot water over the official press release issued (that the US Army Air Force had retrieved the wreckage of a “crashed disc”(words of the press release, not an inference), Army brass reacted quickly to do damage control. A retraction of the story was released, and the press was fed the coverup story. Here’s the now infamous picture of Ramey (along with Chief of Staff Dubose, not Marcel, as many sometimes assume) with the balloon debris.

While the staging contributes greatly to the effectiveness of the coverup, Ramey could not have known at the time, that eventually, technology would enable us to read portions of the memo he’s holding in this photo (in the red box).

The message turns out to be a telegram from Gen. Ramey to the Pentagon and Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, the acting AAF Chief of Staff at the time. Ramey is providing Vandenberg an update on the very fluid situation in-the-field at Roswell.
The first paragraph describes what had been found. Ramey starts by acknowledging "THAT A 'DISK' IS NEXT NEW FIND." He then adds that "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" and something else (possibly just "A WRECK") had also been found near the recovery "OPERATION AT THE 'RANCH'." At the end it states that "YOU" (i.e. Gen. Vandenberg) had ordered the "victims" and/or the wreckage "FORWARDED" to "FORT WORTH, TEX."

So, while photographers are snapping pictures that will eventually keep the story buried for years, they unwittingly capture evidence of what really happened away from public eyes…
Additionally, there is the testimony (as a sworn affidavit) of the other man in the photo other than the General, that proves to be an interesting read…

1) My name is Thomas Jefferson Dubose

(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX

(3) I retired from the U.S. Air force in 1959 with the rank of Brigadier General.

(4) In July 1947, I was stationed at Fort Worth Army Air Field [later Carswell Air Force Base] in Fort Worth, Texas. I served as Chief of Staff to Major General Roger Ramey, Commander, Eight Air Force. I had the rank of Colonel.

(5) In early July, I received a phone call from Maj. Gen. Clements McMullen, Deputy Commander, Strategic Air Command. He asked what we knew about the object which had been recovered outside Roswell, New Mexico, as reported in the press. I called Col. William Blanchard, Commander of the Roswell Army Air Field and directed him to send the material in a sealed container to me at Fort Worth. I so informed Maj. Gen. McMullen.

(6) After the plane from Roswell arrived with the material, I asked the Base Commander, Col. Al Clark, to take possession of the material and to personally transport it in a B-26 to Maj. Gen. McMullen in Washington, D.C. I notified Maj. Gen. McMullen, and he told me he would send the material by personal courier on his plane to Benjamin Chidlaw, Commanding General of the Air Material Command at Wright Field [later Wright Patterson AFB]. The entire operation was conducted under the strictest secrecy.

(7) The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press.

(8) I have not been paid or given anything of value to make this statement, which is the truth to the best of my recollection.

Signed: T. J. Dubose
Date: 9/16/91

Signature witnessed by:
Linda R. Split
Notary Public, State of Florida

Here is the separate pic of Marcel with the debris in Fort Worth.

There is a lot of talk about conflicting stories of material being switched, as stated by Marcel, etc. and this is usually seized upon by skeptics.

When Marcel arrived at Carswell, Brigadier General Roger Ramey, Commander of the 8th Air Force took full charge of the case. The debris from Brazel's field was taken into Ramey's office, and photographed. The photographer was James Bond Johnson. Marcel was in one photo with the real debris. Ramey took Marcel into another office, and upon their return to Ramey's office, some new and different material was spread on the floor. Marcel, under orders, stated that this debris was from a weather balloon. After more photos were taken, Ramey sent Marcel back to Roswell, along with a stern warning not to disclose anything he had seen at Carswell. It was then reported that General Ramey recognized the remains as part of a weather balloon. Brigadier General Thomas DuBose, the chief of staff of the Eighth Air Force, after many years of silence would state:
"[It] was a cover story. The whole balloon part of it. That was the part of the story we were told to give to the public and news and that was it."

I’ve shown the two photos as regardless of any of that disagreement, we’ve got sworn testimony by Dubose that the balloon story was a coverup that he had full knowledge of.
In the next part, I’ll go into the accounts of the debris as told by witnesses, and I’ll examine what’s been said on this from both skeptics and believers, to allow the reader to judge for themselves which version they think is more plausible. [TO BE CONTINUED]

Part II can be seen here:

[edit on 26-5-2005 by Gazrok]

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 11:38 AM
Really great stuff Gazrok

They really take witnesses for idiots...

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 12:28 PM

Dummies They really take witnesses for idiots...

Not to mention...time travellers...

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 12:33 PM
The blaring differences between a crashed disk and a crashed recon ballon is enough to bring attention to this incident. If this were a murder trial, and all this evidence was presented, even though its mostly circumstantial and eywitness accounts, the defendant would be found guilty.

Gaz, you have done an amazing job putting this all into one post. I look forward to reading part 2 and 3.

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 12:47 PM
Gaz, I like reading your posts, but c'mon, this one's like reading the freakin' bible!

Just kidding. Good stuff.


posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 01:11 PM
Excellent post as always Gazrok, you're a great asset to this forum community and even the Ufology community.

And thank you, I was not aware of the sworn affidavit from Gen. Dubose testifying that the weather balloon was indeed a cover story. That, coupled with Marcel's testimony to Stanton Friedman in the late 70's before he died adds serious weight to the crashed disc explanation. Keep up the great work bro.

BTW, I really wish we could take all this evidence to congress and try to get the case reopened. Even looking at all this with an objective point of view I find it hard to be skeptical towards this all being a cover up.

[edit on 16/2/05 by Meteor_of_War]

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 01:34 PM
An excellent post, Gazrok. I'm looking forward to your subsequent ones.

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 03:56 PM
Almost done with part II. Likely tomorrow.

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:00 PM
To bad I cant applaud

Nice work on MY favorite conspiracy theory.

Well its not really a theory, its PROVED they have repeatedly lied.

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:10 PM
Great post Gazrok

I cant see anyone confusing a mogul ballon for anything other then a weather ballon and some tinfoil

It was made of '' tin foil and balsa wood ''

Its not like tin foil was some new material in 1947. Hershey had been wrapping its chocolate bars in the stuff for like 20 years or longer.

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:19 PM
Wow Gazrok!
Totally detailed an awesome. Yes, finally someone is doing it! Can't wait to read the series. Totally cool!

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:36 PM
I agree gaz, great job putting it together. I too found the Brigidere general's memo interesting. Looking forward to your next effort. It sure makes you wish the people weren't so friggin ignorant about it all.

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 05:18 PM
I just can't get over how if it was only a crashed balloon why they would send pieces of it all over the nation. Wouldn't they just take it back to the location from which it was launched? At least the same facility.

Would it have required so many shipments of large loads to so many different destinations? Why would the base it was launched from not be able to handle all the material recovery and research of the balloon that was launched from their location? Wouldn't they have the required support for the project at its launch location?

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 05:36 PM
Why would the Air Force feel compelled to mention there were dummies used and recovered in the Mogul project crash? Especially if this would not have been possible.

I think Gazrock proved that these dummies were not used as early as the Roswell incident.

It must be that the Air Force knew there were valid arguments for body shaped objects being recovered from the crash site, especially if it was based on fact. Maybe the Air Force had to find something body shaped that they claimed was actually at the site because there was no denying this very fact. So if they lied about what those body shaped objects were, their claim being dummies, what could these body shaped objects have been? Why do they feel the need to hide this info by claiming the objects to be dummies? Maybe because they were actually EBE's.

The Air Force should have kept their mouth shut figuring that people could find out the dates these dummies were being used in projects. The only reason they could have tried to explain the bodies is if they wanted this to be figured out, they were just that stupid, and/or they don't really care what we counter with.

What they could say now to make up for their mistake would be "we didn't disclose how early we were actually using the dummies because it was top secret. We were actually using them back in 1945 but it was not on record...." Blah blah blah, you know the drill. This may not good either if they didn't want to admit they were keeping more secrets, even if they were this small.

I think it was a big mistake by the Air Force to make body shaped objects an issue on this one. Some one should be in deep you know what for this strategic blunder.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Mandalorianwarrior]

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:47 PM
I always wondered why they came out with the "Roswell Case Closed" report saying the crash was from project Mogul. It seems to me all they did was stir up the conspiracy even more. It wasn't very convincing, and just another blunder, just like the origional report of a crashed disc. The evidence is pretty clear, they should just give it up.

Great work Gaz

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 08:50 PM
I'll explain a lot more about the bodies in the "Timeline" post. Then you'll see that the "Case Closed" report tries to explain away reports of bodies seen out in the desert. However, many of the the claims of "bodies" actually didn't have much to do with the crash site scene....

As for the Mogul balloons and retrievals, I'll be getting to that in the "Debris Analysis" post. (another affadavit coming) The argument of course being why fly balloon debris and balsa wood/tin foil radar targets under heavy guard to Fort Worth, Wright Patterson, and Washington DC ??? Surely there is something more going on...

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:19 PM
You did alot of good work and research there my good friend.

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:56 PM
I may have jumped the gun a bit but it sounds like you're going to touch on two of my favorite little oddities about the crash at Roswell.


Keep up the good work

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 11:41 PM
Gazrok, awesome stuff, - keep it coming.

Here's a link for ya

thinking about it though, you may already have reviewed this.


posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 08:07 AM

Here's a link for ya

thinking about it though, you may already have reviewed this.

Yes, one of many, many sources. (you'll note I used it for the affadavit from Dubose in the post)
I hope to have part II posted sometime today.

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