Yea for Transgender Equality!!

originally posted by: Woodcarver

She is not a male. She will never be a male. No matter what she puts in her body.

I’m not interested in your ignorant prejudices.

If a male with lower than average testosterone, uses supplements, can he compete against other males?

I actually think he should be able to, as long as he is not putting his testosterone levels outside the normal range.

Here’s an article advocating for medical exemptions to the zero tolerance to testosterone rule in competition sports:

theconversation.com...

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: kaylaluv

You're wrong. There are plenty of testosterone products out there with a warning label that you will fail a sports test if it's in your system. Actually any testosterone product that works as it's intended will fail a sports drug test.

I realize that. I am saying that there should be a medical exemption for trans males who are merely putting enough testosterone in their bodies to satisfy the normal range of testosterone in males — and that those trans males should be able to compete with other males.

You are talking about females on steroids, competing against males. This is not a female becoming a male.

Could you please provide a good reason why this should be acceptable?

Because I’m not a transphobe?

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Woodcarver

She is not a male. She will never be a male. No matter what she puts in her body.

I’m not interested in your ignorant prejudices.

If a male with lower than average testosterone, uses supplements, can he compete against other males?

I actually think he should be able to, as long as he is not putting his testosterone levels outside the normal range.

Here’s an article advocating for medical exemptions to the zero tolerance to testosterone rule in competition sports:

theconversation.com...

Please explain to me what part of my argument is based on ignorance? Does this person have chromosomal Abnormalities?

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Woodcarver

She is not a male. She will never be a male. No matter what she puts in her body.

I’m not interested in your ignorant prejudices.

If a male with lower than average testosterone, uses supplements, can he compete against other males?

I actually think he should be able to, as long as he is not putting his testosterone levels outside the normal range.

Here’s an article advocating for medical exemptions to the zero tolerance to testosterone rule in competition sports:

theconversation.com...

Please explain to me what part of my argument is based on ignorance?

Nope. No amount of education I can give you on gender/gender dysphoria/trans sexuality will affect you. You, my friend, are a lost cause.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: kaylaluv

You're wrong. There are plenty of testosterone products out there with a warning label that you will fail a sports test if it's in your system. Actually any testosterone product that works as it's intended will fail a sports drug test.

I realize that. I am saying that there should be a medical exemption for trans males who are merely putting enough testosterone in their bodies to satisfy the normal range of testosterone in males — and that those trans males should be able to compete with other males.

You are talking about females on steroids, competing against males. This is not a female becoming a male.

Could you please provide a good reason why this should be acceptable?

Because I’m not a transphobe?

I’m not a transphobe either. I think she should be able to do whatever she wants. She should be allowed to fight anyone who is willing to fight her. Male, female, lions, tigers, i don’t care. But do it outside of regular competition. This type of competition is about pushing human bodies to their natural limits and pitting equal opponents against each other.



The point is, she is a female on steroids, fighting other females, not on steroids. Is anyone else allowed to use steroids?

Should she be allowed to wrestle men? Maybe. It’s not like they are punching each other. But if she needs to take steroids to do it, then why can’t the guy?


Women should not fist fight men. Their physical makeup is not comparable. A man and a woman of equal size and equal strength will still not have the same bone density and power behind their strikes. You can easily break a wooden bat with a metal one.


But wrestling and no strike ju-jitsu, arm wrestling, and other non striking sports could easily be open to cross gender matches. Just no steroids.

Hell, i’m even open to starting an all steroids league. People should be allowed to push their bodies as far as they want. But fair competition, which has existed in this form for thousands of years, is about fair natural competition. It always has been.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Woodcarver

She is not a male. She will never be a male. No matter what she puts in her body.

I’m not interested in your ignorant prejudices.

If a male with lower than average testosterone, uses supplements, can he compete against other males?

I actually think he should be able to, as long as he is not putting his testosterone levels outside the normal range.

Here’s an article advocating for medical exemptions to the zero tolerance to testosterone rule in competition sports:

theconversation.com...

Please explain to me what part of my argument is based on ignorance?

Nope. No amount of education I can give you on gender/gender dysphoria/trans sexuality will affect you. You, my friend, are a lost cause.

You are making assumptions, And you simply can’t explain where my position is wrong.

If you have some education to lay down, i am happy to hear it. I’m not even sure why you would not want to educate someone whom you feel holds the opinion that you seem to think I do.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Woodcarver

She is not a male. She will never be a male. No matter what she puts in her body.

I’m not interested in your ignorant prejudices.

If a male with lower than average testosterone, uses supplements, can he compete against other males?

I actually think he should be able to, as long as he is not putting his testosterone levels outside the normal range.

Here’s an article advocating for medical exemptions to the zero tolerance to testosterone rule in competition sports:

theconversation.com...

should Manny Pacquiao be able to use steroids to bulk up until he’s large enough to fight Brock Lesnar?

a reply to: Woodcarver

You are trying to compare someone with a medical condition that would be repaired with something like testosterone, to someone who just wants to be more buff. That is an unfair comparison.

a reply to: Woodcarver

It doesn’t really matter what the DNA says. There are transgender people who have been taking hormones for so long, that their bodies are so similar to their identified gender - that it would be almost impossible for someone to tell the difference. That is the goal - not to cheat in competition sports, as you seem to imply. The goal is to match the body to what the brain says - and many trans people have become very successful in achieving that goal. Once they have become successful in achieving that goal, why can they not compete in the category of their identified gender?

a reply to: Xtrozero

LOLOLOLOLOL...you're celebrating a boy basically beating up girls. What a pickle that must be for the progressive crowd, especially the new-age feminists.

Based on biology and science alone, he SHOULD be winning, because he's naturally physically more adept to this type of thing. There's not much impressive about this.

I'll just be excited when a real girl actually beats him and the crowd erupts in deafening applause.

I think that the state is doing the right thing, here--if we want to be a culture that claims that it's okay for a person to choose which sex they are, then they need to follow it through across the board, even if that means being humiliated because you have to wrestle girls instead of boys.

A 36-0 record, yet earning him little-to-no respect. Life lessons sometimes hit hard, and I'd be interested to see a where-is-he-now interview when he 40 after he's matured and contemplated his choices as a teenager.

I know, I know...I'm a closed-minded asshat who has no culture...

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Woodcarver

It doesn’t really matter what the DNA says. There are transgender people who have been taking hormones for so long, that their bodies are so similar to their identified gender - that it would be almost impossible for someone to tell the difference. That is the goal - not to cheat in competition sports, as you seem to imply. The goal is to match the body to what the brain says - and many trans people have become very successful in achieving that goal. Once they have become successful in achieving that goal, why can they not compete in the category of their identified gender?

The goal being to match the body to what the brain says, except for reproduction. Which is the epitome of becoming that gender is it not? Why are there 58+ genders when the goal seems to be one of two?

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Wardaddy454


I mean you snowflake over words on a screen by complete strangers. I merely pointed out that calling people bigots isn't going to help people take you seriously.

Hah! All I said when I entered was that it was funny that all of these jerks were trying to misgender a trans person but got it right because they didn't bother to read the article. Like I said, they are tripping over their own bigotry.

Somehow, you all have fooled yourself into believing that calling out jerk behavior is somehow worse than jerk behavior. So yeah... that's the epitome of snowflake.

You didn't say jerks, you said bigots. You were very triggered over a mistake. If you look for bigotry you will always find it.

Nope. All you said is that we can't change chromosomes. That's a fact. And nobody cares about chromosomes except for the people who would think it important enough to prop up as a lame argument.

Sooo you don't care about a fact?

There are eight biological gender markers that determine a person's sex. Chromosomes are among the least because they virtually do nothing once you are an adult. If you were to magically trade your chromosomes with your sister, nothing would change about you. You'd still be a dude.

Considering that both types of gene mapping guide scientists towards the location of a gene on a chromosome, its pretty important. But I'm no biology major.

I acknowledged that fact. I simply said it's a lame argument.

So what do you think would happen if you and your sister switched chromosomes in some twisted experiment? Nothing about your body would change yet people who live by that argument would insist you are now a woman. Does that make sense to you? Again, it's one of several biological gender markers.

And to be honest, there are exceptions and are more common than you think. Unless you took an expensive karyotype test, you can only assume what your chromosomes are. But you know why that test isn't a standard thing your doctor requests? Because it doesn't matter.

Geneticists would disagree with you. You probably could turn a male into a female. But, you are somewhat right. For a small amount of people in the world, chromosomes are irrelevant. But for the rest they are not.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Xtrozero

I'll just be excited when a real girl actually beats him and the crowd erupts in deafening applause.

I think that the state is doing the right thing, here--if we want to be a culture that claims that it's okay for a person to choose which sex they are, then they need to follow it through across the board, even if that means being humiliated because you have to wrestle girls instead of boys.

So he can be born a girl, choose to be a boy, want to wrestle other boys like his choice should allow him, the state can force him to wrestle based on his birth sex(girl)... and the state is doing the right thing?

I think you misunderstood this story prior to posting.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Apparently you are a close-minded asshat who doesn’t know what’s going on.

First off. This isn't equality. It would be equality for this girl to wrestle someone else on testosterone.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

There are many men born males who are sterile, therefore can’t reproduce.

There are many women born females who cannot reproduce.

So, no... reproduction isn’t the epitome of either gender.

And what does the ability to reproduce have to do with sports competition?

originally posted by: eNumbra


So he can be born a girl, choose to be a boy, want to wrestle other boys like his choice should allow him, the state can force him to wrestle based on his birth sex(girl)... and the state is doing the right thing?

I think you misunderstood this story prior to posting.

Seems logical and reasonable, well until a person born a boy and wants to be a girl, do we let that person compete with girls now too?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: eNumbra


So he can be born a girl, choose to be a boy, want to wrestle other boys like his choice should allow him, the state can force him to wrestle based on his birth sex(girl)... and the state is doing the right thing?

I think you misunderstood this story prior to posting.

Seems logical and reasonable, well until a person born a boy and wants to be a girl, do we let that person compete with girls now too?

Are they taking estrogen/female horomones to facilitate the transition?

I say we do, then you can judge their performance however you personally see fit.

The problem with slaps post, is that he obviously thought the situation out backwards, the way you pose, in which yes, a biological male may likely have some advantage; this is not the case we’talking about, not everything can be painted with the same brush.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Trans females (born a male transitioning to female) who blocked testosterone before puberty and started taking estrogen right away will have the same muscle and bone mass as a girl.

After reading these pages, and the story twice now...I want to correct and amend my initial post. I was reading it wrong, but my stance then still stands if she was born a male. Thats what I intially thought.

Anywho...

She was born female and wants to be male. So she is taking doctor prescribed anabolic steroidal form testosterone to raise her hormone levels to that of a male.

She should wrestle men. That is what she wants anyway.
To be accepted as a male. So let her (him?) have at it.

I say, let her wrestle the males then.
Let's see how she does with people in the same hormone range. It's not fair to the female wrestlers in her league. There are conflicting opinions here, but some good points.