Trump suggests arming teachers & staff could prevent school massacres

originally posted by: Edumakated
Why do we have armed security guards at banks then?

Where I live we don't.

Why do we have armed security guards at sporting and other events?

Because it's a single high population density event. Logistics actually allow for it.

Why do we have armed security at jewelry stores?

Never seen this.

Why is there armed security at convenience stores?

Never seen this.

Why do prominent politicians and other famous people have armed security?

Because high value targets are relatively easy to secure. The better question would be, why doesn't the average person have armed security? And the answer is that it's logistically impossible.

If all those things are so important to have armed security, why do you think we shouldn't have armed security protecting our children?

Because it's logistically impossible. It would make much more sense to make it far harder to get a gun, which would drastically cut down on the number of mass shootings that take place. We average about 1 mass shooting in the US per day (defined as a shooting with 4 or more victims), some in schools, some churches, some nightclubs, and some just on the streets. Even if we were to secure the schools, it's ignoring the wider problem which is that of mass shootings. Looking at other nations, gun control works. How many shootings using fully automatic weapons happen?

It's even constitutional, 4 federal appeals courts have upheld that gun control is constitutional (which is why the Supreme Court hasn't taken it up), and the last time they did, in Hadler even Scalia who is a really conservative guy said that the government had the right to say which weapons the 2nd applies to at any given time.

originally posted by: JinMI
Private companies?

The head of Blackwater is the brother of the head of the Department of Education. I'm sure you can guess the solution they're pushing for.

originally posted by: pavil
I like the Idea posted above about hiring Veterans for the job who have the marksmenship.

How many vets would want that job? Crap pay to hang around high schoolers all day. Given school funding, they would make better money at McDonalds.

It says a lot about American society when you are considering arming school teachers. What's next? Armed guards in kindergartens?!
Savages

originally posted by: MarlbBlack
I pay enough property tax that goes to the school, they could easily screen a security guard that is capable of actually dealing with this type of incident and pay him/her well.

We're not talking about one security guard. Parkland had an armed security guard. This proposal is talking about an armed guard in every 2 or 3 classrooms so that there's full coverage at all times.

Do you know what this entire thing comes across to me as? We've got two or three generations now of ammosexuals (some who need to retire soon) that don't have any useful skills to offer society, so they're trying to leverage dead kids to let them be useless eaters in the school system.

a reply to: Aazadan

It's a complex issue that isn't really about guns.

We have over 350 million in the current circulation that is more than American populatuon. Gun control at best would take decades to take effect.

Now certain effects can stop the immediate purchase of guns like family being able to create protective orders on mentally unstable people.

However like your explanation of moving to movie theater the psychos will move towards ied's or even plowing down students in the parking lot.

There is a possibility of non lethal technology that can be installed or used as well as surveillance and aI for body language analyzation that can be used to the school sso.

It's not guns. Either way. Passing gun legislation in a perfect scenario would take decades to effect the gun deaths. It wouldn't stop the ied's and whatever else the psychopaths come up with and the news over reports.

They don't have mass school shootings in Russia or even Guatemala every other month yet have a lack of accesss to good Healthcare and plenty access to guns.

It's a complex issue. The security portion is a fragment of the solution any way you believe.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: MarlbBlack
I pay enough property tax that goes to the school, they could easily screen a security guard that is capable of actually dealing with this type of incident and pay him/her well.

We're not talking about one security guard. Parkland had an armed security guard. This proposal is talking about an armed guard in every 2 or 3 classrooms so that there's full coverage at all times.

Do you know what this entire thing comes across to me as? We've got two or three generations now of ammosexuals (some who need to retire soon) that don't have any useful skills to offer society, so they're trying to leverage dead kids to let them be useless eaters in the school system.

You don't need an armed teacher in every room, just like you don't need an armed guard behind every teller at a bank. Just knowing someone is armed on campus is enough deterrent. The beauty of concealed carry is that you don't know who is packing which creates uncertainty in the minds of the criminal. Even though the media tries to bury it, there have been several mass shootings that were stopped by an armed citizen. We also have to understand that you cannot prevent all tragedies. There will never be zero tragedies whether we ban guns or not.

Gun free zones just announce to criminals that the people are sitting ducks.

I know homeowners who keep a big dog food bowl and a beware of dog sign in their yard even though they don't even own a dog because it creates an illusion that gives burglars a second thought. Some do the same with alarm systems and even NRA stickers even if they aren't armed.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: MarlbBlack
I pay enough property tax that goes to the school, they could easily screen a security guard that is capable of actually dealing with this type of incident and pay him/her well.

We're not talking about one security guard. Parkland had an armed security guard. This proposal is talking about an armed guard in every 2 or 3 classrooms so that there's full coverage at all times.

Do you know what this entire thing comes across to me as? We've got two or three generations now of ammosexuals (some who need to retire soon) that don't have any useful skills to offer society, so they're trying to leverage dead kids to let them be useless eaters in the school system.

You don't need an armed teacher in every room, just like you don't need an armed guard behind every teller at a bank. Just knowing someone is armed on campus is enough deterrent. The beauty of concealed carry is that you don't know who is packing which creates uncertainty in the minds of the criminal. Even though the media tries to bury it, there have been several mass shootings that were stopped by an armed citizen. We also have to understand that you cannot prevent all tragedies. There will never be zero tragedies whether we ban guns or not.

Gun free zones just announce to criminals that the people are sitting ducks.

I know homeowners who keep a big dog food bowl and a beware of dog sign in their yard even though they don't even own a dog because it creates an illusion that gives burglars a second thought. Some do the same with alarm systems and even NRA stickers even if they aren't armed.

I disagree and this situation already negated that.

These people aren't chossing schools because they are gun free zones in most situations. They chooses schools because they blame their peers for their misery. They blame the society they are in which is the school. Often they don't plan on making it out alive.

It's not a solution that will come with legislation whether guards or gun control. It's far to complex.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: MarlbBlack
I pay enough property tax that goes to the school, they could easily screen a security guard that is capable of actually dealing with this type of incident and pay him/her well.

We're not talking about one security guard. Parkland had an armed security guard. This proposal is talking about an armed guard in every 2 or 3 classrooms so that there's full coverage at all times.

Do you know what this entire thing comes across to me as? We've got two or three generations now of ammosexuals (some who need to retire soon) that don't have any useful skills to offer society, so they're trying to leverage dead kids to let them be useless eaters in the school system.

You don't need an armed teacher in every room, just like you don't need an armed guard behind every teller at a bank. Just knowing someone is armed on campus is enough deterrent. The beauty of concealed carry is that you don't know who is packing which creates uncertainty in the minds of the criminal. Even though the media tries to bury it, there have been several mass shootings that were stopped by an armed citizen. We also have to understand that you cannot prevent all tragedies. There will never be zero tragedies whether we ban guns or not.

Gun free zones just announce to criminals that the people are sitting ducks.

I know homeowners who keep a big dog food bowl and a beware of dog sign in their yard even though they don't even own a dog because it creates an illusion that gives burglars a second thought. Some do the same with alarm systems and even NRA stickers even if they aren't armed.

I disagree and this situation already negated that.

These people aren't chossing schools because they are gun free zones in most situations. They chooses schools because they blame their peers for their misery. They blame the society they are in which is the school. Often they don't plan on making it out alive.

It's not a solution that will come with legislation whether guards or gun control. It's far to complex.

I actually don't disagree with you about their motivations. However, the motivation of these nut jobs is irrelevant in so far as protecting the students.

If we accept that there are some loose screws, I rather the schools be protected to the best of their ability just in case. Even though school shootings are rare, I'd still rather have them prepared for at least a shooter scenario.

If we agree that the shooters are lunatics, then we also must agree that gun control really isn't the issue. The issue is why are these kids flipping out and what can we do to prevent that from occurring?

You don't ban cars because we have drunk drivers...

a reply to: Edumakated

I agree there. Banning guns is not the answer.

There are some measures I would agree to like a temporary protective order when family members can provide evidence someone is not stable. There would need to be safeguards against that being abused.

Also the focus on preventing them with good Intel and surveillance in the school. Maybe a division of the fbi that is devoted to schools and these peer based shootings. They obviously missed this one but who knows how stretched they are resource wise.

I don't think arming teachers is very reasonable. Ccl's and the average cc gun are made for very close quarter personal defence.

I wonder what type of acoustic non lethal weapon could be designed and placed in classrooms for emergencies. Probably a stretch but it's such a complex issue it needs to be discussed and discussed to come up with real solutions. It won't be one thing.

Why do Americans do this so frequently? That is a real question to figure out.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Edumakated

I agree there. Banning guns is not the answer.

There are some measures I would agree to like a temporary protective order when family members can provide evidence someone is not stable. There would need to be safeguards against that being abused.

Also the focus on preventing them with good Intel and surveillance in the school. Maybe a division of the fbi that is devoted to schools and these peer based shootings. They obviously missed this one but who knows how stretched they are resource wise.

I don't think arming teachers is very reasonable. Ccl's and the average cc gun are made for very close quarter personal defence.

I wonder what type of acoustic non lethal weapon could be designed and placed in classrooms for emergencies. Probably a stretch but it's such a complex issue it needs to be discussed and discussed to come up with real solutions. It won't be one thing.

Why do Americans do this so frequently? That is a real question to figure out.

I think we are on the same page. I'm for hearing all kinds of solutions but knee jerk reactions like ban ARs or the typical stuff we hear from the gun grabbers is not going to solve this issue.

a reply to: Edumakated

Banning AR's is a political campaign.

Now carrying around under your jacket in nyc I understand why that may be questionable.

I wonder if mandatory civil service would help keep tabs on nuts?

Like banning guns I am hesitant to say armed security would prevent these nuts from doing these terrible things. I think it's probably necessary to have security as u fortunate as that is but what if they move to ied's or ramming down students with trucks, poisoning etc..

We have to figure out why American kids pop and do this more often than in other places. Even other places with guns and bad health care.

a reply to: luthier

I think kids here flip out because:

1) broken homes: unstable family lives.
2) video games: desensitized to violence. FPS and movies.
3) social media: desire for acceptance and narcissim
4) standard of living: it is so high even for our poor, we lose perspective on life in general relative to the rest of the world. Oh my god, I don't have a pair of $200 jordan tennis shoes.
5) meds: I do think there is something going on with over medication and side effects

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
In a society where you can't escape guns. Armed teachers isn't a bad idea. Do you have a better one?

Thank the Universe I live in a country that implemented logical gun restrictions. I need not fear sending my kids to school, and I question why ANYONE would want to put their children in such danger just so they can keep their guns. It's utterly ludicrous.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: luthier

I think kids here flip out because:

1) broken homes: unstable family lives.

Happens all over the world. Only in America do they grab guns and shoot up schools.

2) video games: desensitized to violence. FPS and movies.

BS. I've played shooting games for 20 years and have NEVER had the urge to go shoot up a school or commit mass murder. That nonsense has been debunked a million times.

3) social media: desire for acceptance and narcissim

Again, only in America. You guys arent the only ones with social media, yet you are the only country that has mass school shootings.

4) standard of living: it is so high even for our poor, we lose perspective on life in general relative to the rest of the world. Oh my god, I don't have a pair of $200 jordan tennis shoes.

Same again. Only in America does the shootings happen even though poverty and "low standards of living" are prevalent throughout the world.

5) meds: I do think there is something going on with over medication and side effects

Once AGAIN: People all over the world take the same meds. Nobody else but Americans seem to take that as a que to pick up guns and commit mass murder.

Clearly you have never travelled beyond your own country and seen the world.

a reply to: Kryties

Great.

Hopefully the power doesn't go out for a couple weeks or you get invaded or a psycho comes into power.

It's funny a couple generations pass by and people think that could never happen again.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: luthier

I think kids here flip out because:

1) broken homes: unstable family lives.

Happens all over the world. Only in America do they grab guns and shoot up schools.

2) video games: desensitized to violence. FPS and movies.

BS. I've played shooting games for 20 years and have NEVER had the urge to go shoot up a school or commit mass murder. That nonsense has been debunked a million times.

3) social media: desire for acceptance and narcissim

Again, only in America. You guys arent the only ones with social media, yet you are the only country that has mass school shootings.

4) standard of living: it is so high even for our poor, we lose perspective on life in general relative to the rest of the world. Oh my god, I don't have a pair of $200 jordan tennis shoes.

Same again. Only in America does the shootings happen even though poverty and "low standards of living" are prevalent throughout the world.

5) meds: I do think there is something going on with over medication and side effects

Once AGAIN: People all over the world take the same meds. Nobody else but Americans seem to take that as a que to pick up guns and commit mass murder.

Clearly you have never travelled beyond your own country and seen the world.

People also have guns in other countries and don't shoot up schools.

So the focus on guns is pretty silly.

originally posted by: CaptainBeno

RT News source

President Donald Trump has floated the idea that arming teachers and school staff could prevent future massacres, as he met with Florida school shooting survivors, who demanded changes and solutions.

WHAT THE ACTUAL F*

SERIOUSLY?

Who's smoking what man? He's serious as well!

“If you had a teacher with, who was adept at firearms, they could very well end the attack very quickly... And we’re going to be looking at it very strongly, and I think a lot of people are going to be opposed to it, I think a lot of people are going to like it,” Trump said at a ‘listening session’ at the White House on Wednesday, that included some Florida school shooting survivors.

The point is the deterrent factor. A crazed shooter won't actively walk into a situation knowing he/she will be shot at typically. If they are bent on causing carnage they will go where they know they can do so.

The last place I'd go to shoot anyone would be a place that I KNOW people will be shooting back.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Kryties

Great.

Hopefully the power doesn't go out for a couple weeks or you get invaded or a psycho comes into power.

It's funny a couple generations pass by and people think that could never happen again.

I live on a farm in a remoteish area. The power goes out all the time, sometimes for a week or so. Never felt unsafe.

You also seem to think we dont have ANY guns in Australia, which is a total fabrication that you lot lap up like fools. GUN RESTRICTIONS does NOT equal GUN BAN. Do your research.

originally posted by: luthier

People also have guns in other countries and don't shoot up schools.

So the focus on guns is pretty silly.

You conveniently forget that those other countries, including my own, have restrictions on the types of guns we can use and must pass strict licensing requirements.

Why do you forget this?