Global Warming's Frozen Giant

Hello ATS,

I came across this article which goes deeply into the science and the understanding behind climate science and the conclusions scientists come to. Apparently, it is believed by scientists that the Arctic permafrost contains as much C02 as the entire planet. The problem is, according to the article, is that as the warming season extends each year the layers of melting permafrost grows deeper; in other wordds scientists expect about 4 in of top-layer permafrost to melt each year during warm periods but as those warm periods extend so does the depth at which permafrost melts.

An unknown threat
The organic molecules that make up living things are full of carbon, and when living things die, that carbon returns to the environment.

In warm places, bacteria and fungi usually transform most of it into carbon dioxide or methane, both greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change. But when it's cold, dead things rot slowly.

Permafrost regions in the Arctic and on mountaintops have been burying dead things for tens of thousands of years, and researchers estimate that their soils now hold twice as much carbon as Earth's entire atmosphere. Most of this soil carbon remains perpetually frozen. Each summer, the top layer thaws, allowing decomposers to break down its stored carbon and release that carbon into the air.

As the climate warms, permafrost soil is thawing deeper and staying warm longer. The far north is warming twice as fast as the planet as a whole, with an increase of more than one degree Fahrenheit per decade in the last 30 years. Many researchers anticipate that the warmer it gets, the more soil carbon will be released.Permafrost regions in the Arctic and on mountaintops have been burying dead things for tens of thousands of years, and researchers estimate that their soils now hold twice as much carbon as Earth's entire atmosphere. Most of this soil carbon remains perpetually frozen. Each summer, the top layer thaws, allowing decomposers to break down its stored carbon and release that carbon into the air.

As the climate warms, permafrost soil is thawing deeper and staying warm longer. The far north is warming twice as fast as the planet as a whole, with an increase of more than one degree Fahrenheit per decade in the last 30 years. Many researchers anticipate that the warmer it gets, the more soil carbon will be released.

But researchers have struggled to predict just how much carbon will escape to the atmosphere and how it will affect the climate. Some of the released carbon will be taken up by plants, which are expected to flourish in the longer, warmer growing seasons. And while researchers have measured the balance between plant growth and soil carbon release in a few locations, that doesn't automatically translate into a clear picture of the entire region.

To see the big picture and project future conditions, researchers rely on mathematical models of climate and Earth processes that simulate all the forces at work. Policymakers and climate scientists use these projections to set emissions targets -- goals they believe humanity must achieve in order to avert climate catastrophe.

But compared to other climate processes, Arctic soils have been a big black box, without enough data to model accurately. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a major United Nations effort to summarize climate change knowledge for policymakers, stated in its latest report that "confidence is low regarding the sign and magnitude of future high-latitude land carbon response to climate change." None of the large-scale climate models used in the report took permafrost carbon into account.

"We always knew that the permafrost carbon pool was like a ticking bomb," said Abhishek Chatterjee, a carbon cycle scientist with NASA and the Universities Space Research Association in Greenbelt, Maryland, who is working to incorporate soil processes into the Geos-5 Earth System model.

I being rushed ot the door right now by the wife so I had to cut this short however I invite everyone to read the article and see what they are saying. According to the article, this paper isn't political only fact based from actual scientist who are there doing this research. So, what says ATS?

www.insidescience.org...

Laughable paragraph,

Policymakers and climate scientists use these projections to set emissions targets -- goals they believe humanity must achieve in order to avert climate catastrophe.

And "pay" for it in Carbon TAX..


If they wanted clean energy they could have had it, I have mentioned Stanley Meyer a number of times these last few weeks, look at that little chest nut to see what happens when people bugger with the narrative...

I think the end statement by Elon of I have to be dead or incapacitated before I will stop speaks volumes, whats the odds the money men have looked at what options are on the table to deal with him..






RA

The real question, is this a normal cycle that earth goes through? My guess it is. a reply to: lostbook

originally posted by: gimcrackery
The real question, is this a normal cycle that earth goes through? My guess it is. a reply to: lostbook

Great grandpa is a scientist and says it is a cycle.
If we find pyramids beneath the ice, that will confirm it.

a reply to: slider1982

Be careful, mentioning Stan Meyer will get the "experts" out in force.
Everyone forgets that he let real scientists look at his work.

a reply to: lostbook

'But researchers have struggled to predict just how much carbon will escape to the atmosphere and how it will affect the climate. Some of the released carbon will be taken up by plants, which are expected to flourish in the longer, warmer growing seasons. And while researchers have measured the balance between plant growth and soil carbon release in a few locations, that doesn't automatically translate into a clear picture of the entire region.'

There, right there, is where it becomes muddy. They struggle to predict...forget that AGW is in itself a theory, just assume that it is a 'fact', and also assume that the CO2 will mostly all blow away, except for the expected new plant growth, not that CO2 is a heavier that air gas...Oh! it is. So then we need to assume that will mix with air, get taken to a great height and stay there for a long time...pick a number, 10, 20, 40, 60, 100years heating up the atmosphere...that's a lot of assuming going...especially when the IPCC says 97% of all the 'climate' scientists are so bloody certain, and have been for years, that we should have been Ros bœuf by now, and that jolly old Englanders would be going glug glug glug..... but we're not...maybe that's why this little snippet is getting the rounds now, since another crowd want us to freeze to death as the Sun goes to beddy byes for a hundred years?...that's another number to pick, it varies all according to who you talk to!

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: gimcrackery
The real question, is this a normal cycle that earth goes through? My guess it is. a reply to: lostbook

Great grandpa is a scientist and says it is a cycle.
If we find pyramids beneath the ice, that will confirm it.

Do your grandpa have x-ray vision ?
Or is he just reallyyy old ?

Great Grandpa is 91.
He was summoned to the white house once for a meeting with the vice president.
His eyes are pretty good, but his brain is like a super computer. He is a super genius. Is your great grandpa a super genius too?

He taught grandpa about climate change over 50 years ago. When did you find out about it?

And.... What kind of web is that you are weaving over there

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Great Grandpa is 91.
He was summoned to the white house once for a meeting with the vice president.
His eyes are pretty good, but his brain is like a super computer. He is a super genius. Is your great grandpa a super genius too?

He taught grandpa about climate change over 50 years ago. When did you find out about it?

And.... What kind of web is that you are weaving over there

web of ecology
Thanks for the story

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: gimcrackery
The real question, is this a normal cycle that earth goes through? My guess it is. a reply to: lostbook

Great grandpa is a scientist and says it is a cycle.
If we find pyramids beneath the ice, that will confirm it.

www.livescience.com...

Ancient Forest Thaws From Melting Glacial Tomb

An ancient forest has thawed from under a melting glacier in Alaska and is now exposed to the world for the first time in more than 1,000 years.

www.livescience.com...

Melting Glacier Reveals Ancient Tree Stumps

Melting glaciers in Western Canada are revealing tree stumps up to 7,000 years old where the region's rivers of ice have retreated to a historic minimum, a geologist said today.

a reply to: lostbook

Excellent post. Star and flag.

Ignore the big oil parrots who jumped in to spill some petroleum propoganda. I bet they also are employed by pop up ads to write copy for breast enhancement products. Same tenuous grasp of science.

CO2 in permafrost is nothing compared to the methane locked up in permafrost.

And methane is a greater greenhouse gas then CO2 by far.

originally posted by: ANNED
CO2 in permafrost is nothing compared to the methane locked up in permafrost.

And methane is a greater greenhouse gas then CO2 by far.

Old boogeyman, meet the new boogeyman.

CH4’s absorption bands overlap with those of water vapor. CH4 is thus irrelevant. In other words, any energy that the methane might have absorbed has already been absorbed by H2O.

originally posted by: EggZactly

originally posted by: ANNED
CO2 in permafrost is nothing compared to the methane locked up in permafrost.

And methane is a greater greenhouse gas then CO2 by far.

Old boogeyman, meet the new boogeyman.

CH4’s absorption bands overlap with those of water vapor. CH4 is thus irrelevant. In other words, any energy that the methane might have absorbed has already been absorbed by H2O.

The article does go into the dynamics of why certain places in the Arctic are releasing more C02 than they are releasing.

a reply to: CharlesT

it can't be a "historic minimum". Obviously it was warmer when the trees were growing.