Mueller Indictments for 13 Russian Nationals in US Election Meddling

originally posted by: TruthJava

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: loam
Still reading through this. Much to unwind.

But my immediate reaction is has anyone considered how this affects pro DACA and similar organizations? If these were US state registered LLCs with foreign national members, how would that be different?

It will be more than just that.
Lots of countries had ponies in this race, why are the russkies special?

Russia ISN'T that special...but the gubment may need to have something else to bring out when this one doesn't work either...this will give them an opportunity to keep the sham up even longer and closer to the next election.

It's all a grand scheme to lock down the internet.

The verified blue checkmarks on twitter were only the beginning.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

I seriously doubt that will happen. The corruption still runs deep, and it's just too easy to use the national security reasoning whether it applies or not. And that might be best in the long run. Are we really ready to see what really goes on behind the scenes?

I personally doubt it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

POTUS has access to all states secrets i believe?

I'm surprised his eyeballs are still in his head.

Trump seems to be even more determined as time goes on.

People think it's easy, the worlds been screwed up for 10,000 years and they expect a correction in 365 days.

I want to know who and why made it that a POTUS can only be in office for eight years, perhaps deep state bureaucrats should have to run under the same rules.

What if POTUS of your choice did such an amazing job for 7 years that he was overwhelmingly popular and we lived in a Utopian paradise? He's out? Why?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

if there are American indictments expected at this point, why did Rosenstein go out of his way to include the statement that there were none at this time?

That is not what he said.

That might be the issue you are having. Clear understanding of basic facts and words.

Rosenstein did NOT say that there were no other American Indictments expected, he didn't even say there are no other American Indictments (potentially sealed). What he said was
""there is no allegation IN THIS INDICTMENT that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity"

That does not mean the investigation is over.
Doesn't mean their are not other indictments coming.

The investigation has different branches and teams.
Very clearly this was the Russian Foreign Influence team wrapping up.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

Hillary's server sent emails to the DNC.

You do know how hacking works, right?

TheRedneck

Different timeline altogether.

DNC/Campaign email hacks came long after HRCs server investigation began and the server ceased.
Hillary wasn't even running for office when she had the personal server.

Do you know how time works?

Do you? Since Hillary had sent emails to the DNC before the DNC got hacked, those emails could have still been on the DNC server when it got hacked. And no that's not a different timeline, they're all on the same timeline.

None of that has to do with the investigation into HRCs private email server and whether it got hacked.
That server ceased operation long before the DNC emails were hacked (Not Hillarys)

Red claimed the investigation into HRCs email server confirmed it was hacked exposing the classified emails.

The investigations conclusion was precisely the opposite. That there was no evidence those servers were ever compromised of hacked.

There's no evidence because Clinton had her server, which had been subpoenaed illegally wiped. Comey himself said it was likely it was hacked, before someone convinced him to edit his statement.

In an early draft, Comey said it was “reasonably likely” that “hostile actors” gained access to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s private email account. That was changed later to say the scenario was merely “possible.”

There's no way to be sure since she illegally destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but anyone with a brain knows that her wide open server which operated for years was almost certainly hacked. You ever look at the event logs in your firewall? People try to penetrate your home computer every day, and you're nobody. And they're mostly low-grade hackers looking for thrills. You honestly think the Secretary of State operated a private server with bare minimum consumer quality software for years with pro hackers wanting to get at her information and with years to do it NO ONE succeeded?

If you really believe that, you know nothing.

a reply to: soberbacchus

I know what he said. I watched him say it. Your quote is accurate.

My point, however, seems lost. Regardless of what he said, the indictments are what they are. Anyone can read them and see there are no American names listed. Rosenstein did not have to say one word about American indictments, but he did... specifically. The implication I got was that he specified no Americans were under this indictment as a cue that the investigation is winding down and they are running out of leads on Trump.

Or do you think maybe he just likes the sound of his own voice?

There may be other indictments. I don't doubt that. But I believe the original scope of the investigation is winding down. The only thing left is to follow the tangential leads they have to wrap up all the loose ends.

TheRedneck

a reply to: face23785

You're wasting your breath. He has no clue what a hack is or how it works.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

My point, however, seems lost. Regardless of what he said, the indictments are what they are. Anyone can read them and see there are no American names listed. Rosenstein did not have to say one word about American indictments, but he did... specifically. The implication I got was that he specified no Americans were under this indictment as a cue that the investigation is winding down and they are running out of leads on Trump.

The implication I got was that he was trying to head off the spin the Trump-Russia myth pushers would try to use to make these indictments out as some kind of proof Trump colluded with Russia. He should've known better. If Mueller himself comes out at the end of this and states defininitively there was no collusion between Trump and the Russians, they will still believe there was. It's not about facts. It's about need.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus


The implication I got was that he specified no Americans were under this indictment as a cue that the investigation is winding down and they are running out of leads on Trump.

The implication I got was that he didn't want the media running wild.
This indictment is exactly what it is.
Nothing more, nothing less.

It does not implicate Trump or any Americans.
It is not the end of the investigation.

By claiming this is a sign the investigation is concluded or running out of leads, you are precisely making the indictment MORE than it is.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: face23785

You're wasting your breath. He has no clue what a hack is or how it works.

TheRedneck

Said the person who claimed Russian hackers interfered with the 2016 US election by hacking Hillary Clintons Personal email server in 2012.

A claim disputed by both the conclusion of multiple investigations and TIME ITSELF.

a reply to: TheRedneck

The information in that report would not be classified, and ultimately be not a threat to security. The main reason is that much would be what would be seen in a court trial, the evidence where most could look at and see such, without a security clearance. Which ever side hides that report, or only wants parts put out, would be the ones hiding stuff. So if it is say a partial report, with some redactions, then that person or persons, or even party is hiding something that they do not want people to see.

Right now nothing is going to be shown as it is still a very active investigation. We are not sure where this is leading, but it is starting to paint a bigger picture, and as many would hate to admit it, but the country got played and the Russians helped to get Trump elected. While it may not seem like it was a crime, crimes were committed in the process, and it shows that the integrity of the US elections is not as strong or invulnerable as many would think or like to believe. It also shows that what the intelligence departments have been saying and told congress, that the Russians did interfere with the 2016 election, and are currently active in doing such in 2018.

Now do you want this to be a choice and a government decided by the people of this country, or another country, right now Russia?

a reply to: TheRedneck

It was also an assurance to the country that were not going to let this stand no matter what trump thinks.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Can you point to any reports of even one person whose vote was swayed by the relatively tiny amounts of Russian propaganda? Even anecdotally?

The kind of people who were following those accounts and gobbling up that nonsense were people who were never gonna vote for the other candidate anyway. You know the Russians didn't help get Trump elected. The main effect of their actions has been to divide the country, and everyone who continues to push the Trump collusion myth is helping them.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TheRedneck

It was also an assurance to the country that were not going to let this stand no matter what trump thinks.

It instantaneously discredited every GOP idiot in congress and elsewhere who have been calling for Mueller to be fired.

Ponder for a moment that there has been a fierce and steady campaign from Nunes and other trumplings to prevent the Special Counsel Team from presenting this evidence and indictments.

Stunning when you think about it.

With this small sample of work, the campaign to fire Mueller has gone embarrassingly silent.
GOP can continue to defend Russian Espionage and US Election Interference campaigns at their own peril.

The public now understands fully the dire importance, caliber, credibility and thoroughness of Mueller's work.

Any call to fire Mueller now and stop his work would be seen as nothing less than treason.

a reply to: TheRedneck

We do not have any evidence of any Hillary's emails ever being hacked and in fact the FBI said they could find no evidence of any hacking of her private server. It may well be what kept her from being hacked when half of D.C. was.

a reply to: soberbacchus

The implication I got was that he didn't want the media running wild.

I suppose that is another way of looking at it.

My concern is the indictments specifically indicated Russia's goal was not to get any one person elected to office. Their goal was to disrupt the orderly political process and foment grass roots revolt over rumor and innuendo. And it worked. As face23785 said above,

It's not about facts. It's about need.

That is exactly what Russia wanted: no facts needed, just destroy the other side at all costs. And we're doing it.

Either way, time will tell.

TheRedneck

a reply to: sdcigarpig

The information in that report would not be classified, and ultimately be not a threat to security. The main reason is that much would be what would be seen in a court trial, the evidence where most could look at and see such, without a security clearance.

Not necessarily. It is possible to have a closed court trial based on national security concerns. If that route is necessary, we will never see an unredacted court transcript.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TheRedneck

It was also an assurance to the country that were not going to let this stand no matter what trump thinks.

It instantaneously discredited every GOP idiot in congress and elsewhere who have been calling for Mueller to be fired.

Ponder for a moment that there has been a fierce and steady campaign from Nunes and other trumplings to prevent the Special Counsel Team from presenting this evidence and indictments.

Stunning when you think about it.

With this small sample of work, the campaign to fire Mueller has gone embarrassingly silent.
GOP can continue to defend Russian Espionage and US Election Interference campaigns at their own peril.

The public now understands fully the dire importance, caliber, credibility and thoroughness of Mueller's work.

Any call to fire Mueller now and stop his work would be seen as nothing less than treason.

That's a masterful job of misrepresenting what's been happening, since that's all you guys have left as your Trump collusion myth collapses. People have been calling for the special counsel investigation to stop because it was started and focused around a baseless myth, that Trump colluded with the Russians. Nobody has been calling for a complete halt of investigating Russian interference and holding them accountable for it. And as you guys are so eager to point out when it suits your purpose, the Mueller investigation isn't the only one. But in this case you have to ignore that so talking about people who have called for the Mueller investigation to stop makes it sound like that would be the end of investigating the Russian attempts to interfere.

Can you post anything honest?

a reply to: Sillyolme

It was also an assurance to the country that were not going to let this stand no matter what trump thinks.

That is exactly what I was talking about. Exactly.

You don't know what Trump thinks! Figure that out. You don't know what I think. You only know what you think, although you do seem intent on continuing Putin's attempt to disrupt our political process even after you have been told what he was trying to do.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: TheRedneck

Now do you want this to be a choice and a government decided by the people of this country, or another country, right now Russia?

The answer is whichever helps the GOP win.

Democracy, sovereignty and independent elections are far down on the list.