Teterboro Learjet crash raises questions on training

The NTSB investigation into the crash of a Lear 35A at Teterboro airport last May have raised serious questions about training. They have yet to give a final cause, but the training records for the pilots, who were both killed and were the only people on board, raise questions as to why they were flying that route.

The First Officer was flying the aircraft at the time, despite company policy that the SIC should not handle any flying duties. At the time of the crash, he had 2700 hours, only 265 of which were in the Lear. Yet he was flying in extremely difficult airspace, in bad weather conditions.

The Captain had a history of poor performance, including a history of barely running checklists, or not running them at all. He was found to be not proficient in circling approaches, yet was flying a difficult circling approach into Teterboro. He failed (as they both did) multiple check rides, including upgrades to instructor.

www.flyingmag.com...

Sounds like HR screwed the pooch there.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
Sounds like HR screwed the pooch there.

HR wasn't flying the aircraft. But then, it appears that this crew wasn't in control either. The Learjet is probably one of the most intense aircraft I've ever flown. You have to stay ahead of the airplane. If you ever get behind, you'll never catch up.

a reply to: F4guy

From what I've read about this, they were so far behind the aircraft at the time of the crash, it wasn't even funny.

a reply to: F4guy
No but they put two people in a cockpit that didnt deserve to be there.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
a reply to: F4guy
No but they put two people in a cockpit that didnt deserve to be there.

Small Part 135 operators like Trans Pacific don't usually have an HR Department. The Chief Pilot makes flight crew hiring decisions. And we don't know what management constraints were imposed, like salary limits. As an aside, most 135 operating specifications prohibit circle to land approaches. If your approach speed is 150 knots (172 mph), you are going so fast that it is hard to stay in visual contact with the runway environment without engaging in extreme maneuvering. The FAA IFR visibility minimums for the Runway 6 circling approach at Teterboro is 1 statute mile. That's 20 second sat approach speed. So, in 20 seconds you have to find the runway, figure out which way to turn to line up for landing, crank it into a very steep high g turn, get the thing slowed down enough to go full flaps and touch down with enough runway left to stop, keeping in mind that if you blow the approach, ATC will send you to the "penalty box" to cool your heels for a while as punishment for screwing up traffic flow.

a reply to: F4guy

I find that interesting. I have over 3000 hours on the Lear 35 flying all over the world with it. I did not find it intense at at all. Just found its avionics extremely out of date for the flying we did. Maybe you guys in the military flew it differently.

originally posted by: HickoryStick
a reply to: F4guy

I find that interesting. I have over 3000 hours on the Lear 35 flying all over the world with it. I did not find it intense at at all. Just found its avionics extremely out of date for the flying we did. Maybe you guys in the military flew it differently.

My Lear time wasn't military but it was a combination of 24, 25, 35 and 55 time, with most in various 25s. The 35 is much more sedate, although I don't really like the Garretts. And flying anything in the LGA/EWR/JFK/TEB/HPN environment can be intense.