Great, now even the Olympics are ruined by irrational Me-Too movement

In the typical new-America fashion, it has become impossible to enjoy any activity without also engaging in political debates/arguments/posturing/conflict of some type. Take Football for instance, with the exception of the Super-Bowl it was impossible to watch without having to witness a half-dozen overpaid entertainers interrupting the game (aka not doing their job) just to politically posture, virtue signal and possibly score some brownie points with the liberal cause celebre of the week.

Fast forward to the Olympics, where we witnessed athletes targeted for harassment over banal and simple mistakes. Shaun White, winner of Olympic snowboarding gold medal received a litany of online insults, jeers and threats. His offense? Daring to defend himself against unproven accusations against him.

I'm going to state a simple fact that is invariably going to ruffle some feathers. Well, too bad. The accuser isn't always telling the truth. In fact, there are plenty of examples in which they were caught lying/intentionally using a heinous crime to garner public support or even sympathy (playing a victim at the expense of real victims *is* very IN style these days, isn't it?). This is why we have a long established process for handling these types of allegations, which naturally the accused is presumptively innocent unless proven otherwise. Here is the thing, the burden of proof rests solely on the accuser. The accused is not required to offer a rebuttal or even offer a defense, although it is absolutely within their right/good sense to do so (after speaking with a lawyer, of course). Even when this burden is met overwhelming, there is still a procedure to be followed (known as due process..........if you don't know this term's meaning, please quit reading now)

However, in typical Me-Too movement fashion, sycophants are more than happy to jump on the bandwagon and levy all sorts of asinine insults over their perceived slight.

As an American, he has the right to deny the allegations. Keep in mind, the allegations against him are the result of a civil lawsuit and NOT CRIMINAL CHARGES. The burden of proof for a civil liability finding (IE: the civil equivalent of "guilty") is much lower than a criminal hearing, and it is equally important to note no such liability has been found to this date.

This is a rant, and I already know those arguing against my POV aren't here to learn/debate. So I'll spare you the convincing arguments, and say it is damned pathetic a presumptively innocent person can't even defend their presumptive innocence and demand proof (in accordance with the burden of proof requirements) before acquiecing to insane populist blood-lust.

Once again, the accuser always must prove their accusations. It is never the responsibility of the accused to disprove allegations, although their free speech gives them the right to contest/rebut the allegations and challenge any narrative put forth.

As to the quality of evidence being used for this entirely specious set of allegations? Nothing substantial. The accuser put forth text messages where Mr. White instructs her to apply a specific hair & dress style prior to a rock concert performance (standard practice for employee/employer relationship). Clearly the other claims (the sexual harassment/assault claims) are entirely unsubstantiated by these text messages. Without any further evidence/an admission of guilt by Mr. White, this is one more case of an innocent (presumptively) person being attacked by the rabid and out of control Me-Too movement.

originally posted by: JBurns
As to the quality of evidence being used for this entirely specious set of allegations? Nothing substantial.

What about the lawsuit he settled with her out of court?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


Are you saying it is uncommon to settle out of court? Mounting a legal defense is costly, and can be absolutely destructive to a "brand" (especially a niche effort such as a music group)

originally posted by: JBurns
Are you saying it is uncommon to settle out of court? Mounting a legal defense is costly, and can be absolutely destructive to a "brand" (especially a niche effort such as a music group)

What's more destructive to the brand, settling a case out of court where you are innocent or exonerating yourself in a court of law and disproving the accuser's allegations?

Rhetorical.

a reply to: JBurns

What the hell is he being accused of?

a reply to: Bluntone22

In the lawsuit , Zawaideh said White repeatedly sexually harassed her, forced her to watch pornography and told her how to get her hair cut.

...

The lawsuit also said White grabbed Zawaideh's buttocks shortly after leaving a band practice and that he once shoved a bottle of vodka into her mouth and forced her to drink from it. It also said that "White stuck his hands down his pants, approached Zawaideh, and stuck his hands in her face trying to make her smell them." The lawsuit also says White tried to kiss Zawaideh at a Halloween party. Source

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


How do you disprove an allegation? It is the accuser's job to prove their allegations. And keep in mind this is a civil process, with a much, much lower burden of proof to find liability.

This is because, as defined by the U.S. Supreme Court, the highest standard of proof is grounded on “a fundamental value determination of our society that it is far worse to convict an innocent man than to let a guilty man go free.”
^In reference to criminal allegations

In civil processes, the accuser must only demonstrate probable cause as opposed to proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given the attention span/intellect of most citizens (including jurors), I can hardly blame him for opting to settle out of court rather than put his future into the hands of people likely making their finding of liability based on emotions/personal reasons vs. facts/tangible evidence (just my personal observation).

originally posted by: JBurns
How do you disprove an allegation?

Evidence and corroborating testimony for starters. You new at this?

It's funny, you want the guy to defend himself but when he opts NOT to defend himself you somehow think the system is broken.

I'm just going to speculate here since none of us are privy to any testimony from the suit but I'm guessing his lawyer advised him to settle as there was likely to be witnesses present who corroborated what the accuser was alleging.

a reply to: JBurns

I was a little bugged about him dragging the flag after he won the gold.

a reply to: Bluntone22


Well, his accuser (a former employee of his) presented text messages where he asked her to change her hairstyle and apply a specific outfit before their rock band performed at a concert. However, the allegations also include a litany of other allegations that aren't supported by this exchange of text messages presented as evidence.

Since the text messages alone do not prove the body of the allegations, and since a dress code is common-place for employment (she was a paid employee), I fail to see the justification for Me-Too's minions on social media to attack this man. Apparently winning a Gold Medal is unacceptable when someone accuses you of something these days. Even more so, apparently it is considered "wrong" by this same irrational movement that the accused would dare to defend themselves

Once again, not every accuser is telling the truth. Not every accuser is lying either. That's why we have the process in place that we do for handling allegations of criminal conduct or civil remedy/torts. There is no such thing as a popular opinion court, trial by media or presumptive guilt.

..and since those text messages don't substantiate her claims beyond the dress code (again a common practice when you have a job), I fail to see where the story is here.

In the lawsuit , Zawaideh said White repeatedly sexually harassed her, forced her to watch pornography and told her how to get her hair cut.

...

The lawsuit also said White grabbed Zawaideh's buttocks shortly after leaving a band practice and that he once shoved a bottle of vodka into her mouth and forced her to drink from it. It also said that "White stuck his hands down his pants, approached Zawaideh, and stuck his hands in her face trying to make her smell them." The lawsuit also says White tried to kiss Zawaideh at a Halloween party.

None of Zawaideh's claims have been substantiated outside of the dress code requirement (clothing, hair style). You're free to ignore the dress code of any employer and sever your employment.

Of course I'm not saying she is lying either. Only that the burden of proof is on the accuser, that the accused obviously enjoys presumptive innocence and that frankly this Me-Too movement is causing more harm than it is doing good. To this end, I'd like to point out the following SCOTUS passage once again:

This is because, as defined by the U.S. Supreme Court, the highest standard of proof is grounded on “a fundamental value determination of our society that it is far worse to convict an innocent man than to let a guilty man go free.”

We can't and shouldn't abandon those bedrock principles simply because a group of (mostly) millennials want to get together and tear up our due process requirements.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's funny, you want the guy to defend himself but when he opts NOT to defend himself you somehow think the system is broken.

I dont know anything about this story but the system is full on broken.

originally posted by: JBurns

Fast forward to the Olympics, where we witnessed athletes targeted for harassment over banal and simple mistakes. Shaun White, winner of Olympic snowboarding gold medal received a litany of online insults, jeers and threats. His offense? Daring to defend himself against unproven accusations against him.

Why not just get on to the social media and defend him there then...man you are so long winded, attacking everybody in America by the sound of it, over yet another possible abuser, go and tell Trump about it, he'll understand..he's been there, Porter's been there, Milos and so on...Trump defends them all...

I agree, I'm still waiting on the girl I touched on the butt in 2nd grade to bring me up on charges......I'm 55

originally posted by: notsure1
I dont know anything about this story but the system is full on broken.

If you say so.

originally posted by: JBurns
None of Zawaideh's claims have been substantiated outside of the dress code requirement (clothing, hair style).

Nor will they be because, hold on to your hat, he settled with her out of court. You dont get to see the evidence.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

though i can see this for what it is, she could have brought this up last month or last year. she didnt.

SHE SETTLED out of court, i.e. agreed upon a conclusive and mutual decision that his actions/lack there of has been absolved based on the conditions they agreed upon. (im 100% sure it was a monetary settlement)

She chose what the price of his alleged actions, they agreed.

but Fork this dhick head for abusing women. im would never defend his (supposed) actions, but i would defend what they legally agreed to; a settlement.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
though i can see this for what it is, she could have brought this up last month or last year. she didnt.

Read my link, it was settled last May, the people brining this up are on social media.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

she tweeted after his gold medals

nope i was wrong, msm tweeted on her behalf. she didn't bring it up after his wins

I do have to ask, if the matter was "settled", then what is it doing here now? It sure sounds like it's anything but "settled".

a reply to: odzeandennz


To me it appeared to be in response to others.