#GermanDeathCamps

My wife and I were tracing some of my Maternal Genealogy, pre-1842, when they immigrated to Phillie. I noticed in the print media books, that in Westphalia, at least, the Nazis are now being called; "The Era of National Socialism". The Polish Gov't may bristle at any Neo Nationalism movements, as any one of them may gestate into Neo National Socialists. What would National Socialism look like without the German National Workers Socialists Party ??

I attended a U. of I. lecture a month or so ago, on the origins of Hitler's party. This whole mess actually started out as a Theosophical Society. They were into Madame Blavatsky et al. And that Prof. had an original pamphlet of theirs with the left handed Swastika emblazoned on it's cover. Hitler was trained to be a spy by the Army, and infiltrated the street gang arm of this Mystical society. Kind of the brains and the brawn. But everything was already laid out for these street thugs.

If you look around a bit, today this Army, "trained infiltrator", is non other than Christopher Steele. It's still all being done by the book. And the Poles are correct in making sure that there can be no more "anti communist", neo Nationalists, arising to "Rescue" them.

Closer to home, Susan Rice's comment about Obama wanting to likewise; "do everything by the book", brings up the question, "Which book", by which author?? Rules for Radicals springs to mind! Hitler's "Mein Kampf" wasn't written until Hitler spent a year in Prison, after the Beer Hall Putsch, of 1923. So his original marching orders came from the German Army Intelligence organ, and then to a lesser degree, by that Theosophical Society.

Both Hitler's former Army commander, and his control in the Intelligence organ were both Jewish Germans. Hitler later appointed both of them as Honorary Aryans. In the Weimar Parliamentary System, the Jews were so small of a group, that Hitler made them his scapegoats, because they didn't have enough votes to cause him political harm.

a reply to: SprocketUK


There's always been something going on between the Poles and the Germans... and not all Poles mind - different ethnic/nationalist groups.

I agree - Nazi death camps rather than German.
I do wonder your opinion though with the camps in the previous war, the POW camps. I call them German camps, or German POW camps.

My great-grandfather was in one, and worked at a nearby salt mine.

a reply to: carpooler



Isn't 'white wash' and the massaging of 'words' a marvelous cop out for history

poland and russia have a very armed neonazi culture. in poland is it more hooligans. ´
russia also have a lot problem with aghanistan products.
also people claim the easteuropean type was the first human on earth and all that. well we have always transhumanism. its not ithink the matter of jews.

or is it all just hatred on socialism

a reply to: eletheia

Could be. From your post, two things jumped out at me. One, the issue of losing jobs to immigrants. Makes me wonder just how "thin" the Polish economy is. I know from a friend that the Ukranian economy is pretty much hand to mouth. The other thing is the religion factor, many Poles are very dedicated and devout Catholics. They credit their Pope, John Paul II, (he was Polish), with helping to free Poland from the Russians.

Lot of factors at work there.

a reply to: eletheia

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: residentofearth

Don't forget that there is war in Ukraine and Poland accept more than 1 million Ukrainians.
Arent they refugees?

It doesn't appear that they are all that happy with that situation either,

and use that as a reason for not taking anymore from the middle east

Africa and Egypt. The ones Angela Merkle is trying to spread around the

other EU countries too.

Of course on some point we are not satisfied, but on the other hand we do not treat Ukrainians as a danger. Ukrainians who heil ukr nationalism are the problem. But majority became part of our society lately. There are school, classes and universities which are happy that they can learn these poor kids. There are programs for Ukrs to gain work, house and school for kids. There is program for whole families. Its became problem because in 1 milion of people there is a real percent of people who want only to commit crimes here. In Wroclaw, where Im living there is more than 100 000 Ukrainians, mostly students and psysichal workers. They do respect that we are hosts and are very greatfull. They are not demanding or claim anything.
Media wont tell You we do accept milion refugees. The problem for media (and EU) is they are no muslims, no black, not from Africa. Its all about that. White man cannot be refugee.
Many of polish organisations went to Syria to help them. Polish Humanitarian Action went to Syria in 2014 and they are still working hard.


a reply to: SprocketUK

that was a great reply, thanks.
So is there a narrative that is recent which has caused the Polish gov. to come up with this campaign then? And if so where is it coming from?

All starts after some journalists starts to refer these German Death Camp were Polish build and organized.

Mass media On 30 April 2004 a Canadian Television (CTV) Network News report referred to "the Polish camp in Treblinka". The Polish embassy in Canada lodged a complaint with CTV. Robert Hurst of CTV, however, argued that the term "Polish" was used throughout North America in a geographical sense, and declined to issue a correction.[56] The Polish Ambassador to Ottawa then complained to the National Specialty Services Panel of the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council. The Council rejected Hurst's argument, ruling that the word "'Polish'—similarly to such adjectives as 'English', 'French' and 'German'—had connotations that clearly extended beyond geographic context. Its use with reference to Nazi extermination camps was misleading and improper."[34]
In 2009 Zbigniew Osewski, grandson of a Stutthof concentration camp prisoner, announced that he was suing Axel Springer AG for calling Majdanek concentration camp a "former Polish concentration camp" in a November 2008 article in the German newspaper Die Welt.[57] The case started in 2012.[58]
In 2010 the Polish-American Kosciuszko Foundation launched a petition demanding that four major U.S. news organizations endorse use of the expression "German concentration camps in Nazi-occupied Poland".[59][60] Canada's Globe and Mail reported on 23 September 2011 about "Polish concentration camps". Canadian Member of Parliament Ted Opitz and Minister of Citizenship and Immigration Jason Kenney supported Polish protests.[61] In 2013 Karol Tendera, who had been a prisoner at Auschwitz-Birkenau and is secretary of an association of former prisoners of German concentration camps, sued the German television network ZDF, demanding a formal apology and 50,000 złotych, to be donated to charitable causes, for ZDF's use of the expression "Polish concentration camps".[62] ZDF was ordered by the court to make a public apology.[63] Some Poles felt the apology to be inadequate and protested with a truck bearing a banner that read "Death camps were Nazi German - ZDF apologize!" They planned to take their protest against the expression "Polish concentration camps" 1,600 kilometers across Europe, from Wrocław in Poland to Cambridge, England, via Belgium and Germany, with a stop in front of ZDF headquarters in Mainz.[64] The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage recommends against using the expression,[65][66] as does the AP Stylebook,[67] and that of The Washington Post.[68]
However, the 2018 Polish bill has been condemned by the editorial boards of The Washington Post[68] and The New York Times.[69] Politicians In May 2012 U.S. President Barack Obama referred to a "Polish death camp" while posthumously awarding the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Jan Karski. After complaints from Poles, including Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski and Alex Storozynski, President of the Kosciuszko Foundation, an Obama administration spokesperson said the President had misspoken when "referring to Nazi death camps in German-occupied Poland."[70][71]In May 31, 2012 President Obama wrote a letter[72] to Polish President Komorowski in which he explained that he used this phrase inadvertently in reference to "a Nazi death camp in German-occupied Poland" and further stated: "I regret the error and agree that this moment is an opportunity to ensure that this and future generations know the truth."

Polish_death_camp_controversy

I just find it very hypocritical that a lot of eastern Europeans are refusing immigration, when thousands upon thousands of them spread across western Europe and settled as economic migrants themselves as soon as they were accepted into the EU, and these eastern European countries accepted loans and money from the EU, and are now backing out of commitments made to other member states but still want money and membership?

Also with the Polish Calling them "German" death camps and not "Nazi" death camps, shows there true feelings to the people they're willing to take grant money from!!

a reply to: Kurokage

Nazi term is used to clear responsibility from German nation. Nazis never died after the war. They became CEO of Bayer. They became head of Apollo program. Nazis were Germans and after war many of them find home in US.
Germans never paid Us the war repatriations. Poland lost 1/5 of population. Whole cost of German invasion is estimated on 526 billion Euro. Only material lose.


How would You call these camps other than Nazis if they were created, built (only planned, most of camps were built by the first prisoners), organised and guarded by Germans? I know Nazism was the ideology of NSDAP not every German. But affraid of death they accept their fate and became part of the death machine. Poles always refused to collaborate with Germans.

As someone said above. They were from Germany, speaking German, wearing German uniforms - Nazis were Germans.

a reply to: residentofearth


And yet the death camps built in Poland aren't polish then? Even if forced, the Polish helped build the death camps in Poland, but it's ok to say German death camps?? You can't have it both ways!!
That's why the Nazi term should be used.

originally posted by: residentofearth
a reply to: Kurokage

Nazi term is used to clear responsibility from German nation. Nazis never died after the war.

I think most Europeans know that Nazis were German and in no way is it to remove responsabilty.

Israel and Mossad might have an opion about Nazis not dying after the end of the war and have you also not heard of the Nuremburg trails then?
Nuremburg trials

a reply to: Kurokage

Their were built in occupied Poland. Built by polish and jews prisoners forced to do that. They did not knew what would be there. First prisoners of Aushwitz were polish political ones.
If someone is forcing You with gun pointed to Your head you had two choices, die or work.
Many of Poles choose the first option.
Land and territory is one thing and nation can still exist without it, on exile. Without People there is no nation.

It is sad how You are trying to connect Nazis to Poles who helped the Jews to survive but it wont work.
Jews also helped built the camps so #JewishDeathCamps?

Nonsense.

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: residentofearth
a reply to: Kurokage

Nazi term is used to clear responsibility from German nation. Nazis never died after the war.

I think most Europeans know that Nazis were German and in know way is it to remove responsabilty.

Israel and Mossad might have an opion about Nazis not dying after the end of the war and have you also not heard of the Nuremburg trails then?
Nuremburg trials

Of course I know the trials and I know Israelis were hunting Nazis. But this is just other side of the coin. Verner Von Braun helped Armstrong reach the moon. Israelis were hunting these Nazis who had no value for US or Israel.


EDIT: Going back to facism and how it is in Poland.
this is the picture from the last celebration of Independence Day. Media in UE call it '100 000 facist March'.
People who were inside that crowd would be very angry if someone in generalizing us in that way. But media are one, life is different.

originally posted by: residentofearth
a reply to: Kurokage

Their were built in occupied Poland. Built by polish and jews prisoners forced to do that.

yet in your previous post you said....

Poles always refused to collaborate with Germans.

Like i said......

Even if forced

It's still IN Poland, which is why "Nazi" death camp is how it should be described.

originally posted by: residentofearth
a reply to: Kurokage

It is sad how You are trying to connect Nazis to Poles who helped the Jews to survive but it wont work.
Jews also helped built the camps so #JewishDeathCamps?

Nonsense.

It's very sad how you are trying to deny and change history, many European countries had Nazi sympathizers, I'm not trying to connect anyone or any single country to the Nazi party, I just don't accept Poland denying any connection what so ever to the death camps so that far right neo-Nazi, pro Russian politics can be more acceptable and to add the last line about Jewish death camps is just plain out of order.
If it were to be named after any country it would be Poland as Auschwitz was built in Poland, which is why "Nazi" is the best term used as they were the regime that ordered the building of it.

a reply to: eletheia

I prefer the "know your enemy" phrase, over white wash. Like a small snowball, rolling down hill, and quickly turning into an avalanche, it's better, IMO, to nip any future Nazis, in their Theosophical "Buds". I'll leave it for you to figure out where those "Buds", are growing.

But please realize, that until Socialism is completely wiped out, there will always be cracks in the floors for Theosophists like the Nazis' parent organization to sprout from, once more. I'm a student of Nostradamus, and according to his prophecies, there will be a future, World wide, financial collapse, and then the Monarchy, of one sort, or another, will come back. Call this the Fourth Reich, the Third Rome, or some beast, from out of the Book of Revelations, but it's going to end a cycle of Republics, who will have had their two Centuries Plus, in the Sun.

And whatever is coming, it's spectre is already knocking on the E. U.'s door. Putin, in Russia, is merely trying to fill this post Third Reich's, era's vacuum! That's why I brought out the current Germans' "era of National Socialism", print media notations, describing their own recent history.

My neighbor, for many years, had a German War Bride, who is now widowed. She was schooled in everything which happened over the last thousand years, in her little locality, in Southern Germany, but doesn't understand much of their nation's history. We, here in the U.S.A., usually have a school year of State History, but many more semesters of American History, going back to our Nation's Anglo Saxon roots. It's weakness is in it's Anglo American slanting.

Prior to the Red Army's Liberation of Eastern Europe, much of present day Poland, was East Prussia. And this opens an entirely new can of worms, as there are presently around 12 Million Prussian Expellees, who were kicked out of their ancestral homes in East Prussia, by the Red Army, in 1945.

I believe that these 12 Millions of P.O.'d Germans will be the flash point for WWIII. Classic Polish Territory was grabbed by Stalin, and populated with Russians, as Belarus. And the Stalinist dictator of Belarus, was smart enough to hang onto his Nuclear missiles. This puts the Poles in between 12 Million Germans with land claims, and lord knows how many Russian settlers, armed with Nuclear warheads, glaring at them from the East. The icing on the cake, here, is that the German Gov't cannot afford to settle all of these East Prussian land claims, and their constitution says that they must either retake East Prussia, or Pay up!

Turning everything over to the E. U. in Brussels, is their Germanic way of "kicking the can, down the road". So I hope this screed, helps you to understand what makes your enemies tick. The Atlantic Ocean won't keep WWIII, away from our U.S.A.

Our little vacation took four weeks, and we traveled from London to Budapest, and then back to Amsterdam. I tried to listen to the common people we interfaced with, and we left London on the day after the 52% to 48%, Brexit election. I actually had to break the news to our hotel staff, as we decamped. London's local news said 65% favored "Remain". But out in the English countrysides people knew that they were being left out in the cold, by the E. U. Bigwigs.

From what I learned from listening, over the next three weeks, Brexit is the beginning of the end, for the E. U. The wild card was Trump's Election, here, in Nov. 2016. We left Amsterdam, early on the morning of July 15th, 2016, just as the T.V. crawlers came on with the news of the Bastille Day, Terrorist attack, down at Nice, Fra., on the previous night.

My wife said that she was happy to be leaving Europe, since it looked like it was blowing up. She knew I wanted to visit Salon en Provence', and see Nostradamus's home and museum, but then we went straight North, through France, from Geneva, Switzerland, so she could have an extra day, or two, for sightseeing in Amsterdam. Our last two weeks were in a Ford Focus rental car, which we dropped off at Schipol Airport, two days before we left for Sea Tac, and home.

We had a wonderful vacation, but my wife feels that those two weeks in the rental car, made it a World Class vacation, well beyond our Romantic Danube River Cruise. And yes, GPS won't do everything, and so we got lost a few times. I laid into Apple's Cust. Support crew for about an hour, and Lo and Behold, now my I-Phone's GPS, doesn't freeze up, like it did in Europe. Now it just re-calculates, if you get a few yards off of your selected route, while in Airplane mode. Our cell phone provider flubbed hooking us up in it's Int'l program, so we had to either use a secure Wi Fi connection, or stay in Airplane mode, to avoid astronomical cell phone charges.

Our Avis rental car also had a GPS but it was using German, and it took some time to get used to it's different coding. Their postal codes are used in the beginning of the address, not like American Zip Codes, which come at the end. It must have used a Corporate wide program, which was somewhat dated, by 2016. New road construction was a P.I.T.A., so we had to fall back on the more current Apple GPS program. My newer I Phone S.E.'s GPS, was always a little different than my wife's I Phone 5.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I have to agree this is aimed at the Polish Nationalists in their bid to stop immigration into Poland. By placing the blame on the nation itself they are trying to force some introspection on the right wingers. Not a bad thing for any group to be doing. Comparing your own to others in history offers some perspective one might not ordinarily see.

a reply to: carpooler


Lol!! I think you have misunderstood my post .....my reference to white wash

and the massaging of words was indicative of how the true view of history gets

altered over time. My family were between 1760 and 1950 in the term i believe

would be 'British' India.

People deride the fact that India was part of what was then known as 'the Empire'

and it is loosely thrown around that India had been raped by the Brits ..... Not so

actual fact is that many British worked for the rulers of the many states that India

consisted of.

They set up a civil service and democracy which is still the backbone of the

country. My g, g, g, g, Grandfathers were involved in the great mapping Survey of

India, The National Survey and Mapping Organisation of the country under the

Department of Science & Technology, is the OLDEST SCIENTIFIC DEPARTMENT OF

THE GOVT. OF INDIA. It was set up in 1767 and has evolved rich traditions over the

years. In its assigned role as the nation's Principal Mapping ..

My g, grandfather was in the employment of the Nizam of Hyderabad

the then acknowledged richest man in the world.


'My grandfather worked for the Indian owned Tata iron and

steel works which had its own township, in much the same way as Cadburys

Bournville township in England.

My father worked for the British/Indian police force which during the riots wasn't

the British fighting the Indians but trying to keep the Hindus and Muslims apart.


So I do understand what you were saying ..... and I still say time has a way of

fading facts.

a reply to: eletheia

Thank you for this clarification. But Hindus and Muslims in India, pretty much live on the same sub continent, and probably won't start a nuclear war between themselves. Now, upper India, "Pakistan", is a horse of a different color. I'm reasonably sure that without assuaging the Expellees, from back in 1945, the Poles are sandwiched in between two nasty forces.

And as I found out, in 2016, the E. U. is starting to fail. With this failure, the German Gov't won't be able to kick their responsibilities, " cans", down the road. Germans keep detailed records, and some of their Polish territory, land deeds, go all the way back to Charlemagne's land grants.

The simple solution would be for the Polish to purchase those Deeds, with National Bonds. Then it would be for the Belarus Gov't to do the same for the lands of the Poles. Alaska was supposed to go back to Russia in 1967, but we welched on that treaty, since the Soviets reneged on a bunch of Russian War Debts. But the fact remains that we've been pumping and selling Russian oil, from the North Slope. And the only reason the Alaskan natives got anything from their oil, was a line or two, the Tsar put into the Seward's Folly Treaty, of 1867.

These are some of the facts which I presume will start WWIII. It will be a native lands, claw back war. In the end, there won't be much, of anything, for anyone, to "claw back".

a reply to: carpooler


Your post just confirms what many of the countries that are in the European

Union.... are only now beginning to see ... what those who voted for Brexit have

come to see, that it is not a *union* of countries, but a monstrous

evil power grabbing institution, collating what they were previously unable to do

with two world wars.

originally posted by: residentofearth
a reply to: Kurokage

Poland lost 1/5 of population.

Poland lost as many Catholics as it lost Jews in WW2, something generally not acknowledged in the media. The holocaust targeted everyone and once the Jews were gone then Catholics were going to follow. Those camps were out to destroy everyone in the east who couldn't by Germanised and Poland was actively being settled by Germans. Poles in general actually were in a different category to other occupied states, the collaboration in Ukraine and the Baltics was incredible and horrific compared to that in Poland.

The highest number of Righteous Among Nations out of all the states in that war is Poland with over 6,000 members.