Adoptionisn : One of Christianities earliest incarnations..

a reply to: Deetermined

John is a forgery from 100 years later..

Mark is the first and oldest gospel. Then Mattew and Luke. John comes last and was 100 years later.



After the Roman version of Christianity had started to fill in the holes.

Now, was John an accurate retelling of the oral traditions till then??

Maybe. That is what Christian scholars claim.. no one argues it was written WAY later.

Different language signifiers confirm that..

Such as sayings that ONLY work in geek.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I’m about to go look it up but I’m pretty sure “the mighty god” isn’t inthe originating text.

a reply to: Deetermined

When did jesus run a government?!?!!

And the real translation is “the ruler of peace” . Christians change that last part so it sounds like they are talking about an heir or son.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Deetermined

When did jesus run a government?!?!!

And the real translation is “the ruler of peace” . Christians change that last part so it sounds like they are talking about an heir or son.

It's prophecy, Joshua. Jesus will rule over Israel during the Millennial period. It hasn't happened yet, just like those other verses we discussed that said that Israel would finally know that Jesus was LORD and his commandments written on their hearts. This will all happen during the millennial period, otherwise known as the Millennial Kingdom.

In the meanwhile, once again, we recognize the Messiah (Jesus) as the child that was born and the son that was given. This part of prophecy has already come to realization. The rest won't happen until...

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

John 5:39-47

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

a reply to: Deetermined

BWAHAHAHA

So your admitting them that jesus doesn’t fit the bill..


You can’t use what jesus is supposed to do later as proof the passage is talking about him...


Obviously..

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Jesus does fit the bill as the Messiah who came, was rejected (as told in the Old Testament), but will return again to set up his Millennial Kingdom and prove to the Jews that they made a mistake.....again. Unfortunately for them, it won't happen until two thirds of them have been cut off and a remnant is saved to live during the Millennial period in an effort to replenish themselves. In case you haven't noticed, it never turned out or turns out the way they wanted or expected, because of their constant rejection. God has consistently used them as a sign and an example of WHAT NOT TO DO and that won't ever change, but it will also mean the end of the world as we all know it.

jewsforjesus.org...

Israel isn't surrounded by all Muslim nations that would love nothing more than to see the "Death of Israel" for no reason. While they are safe for the time being, it won't remain that way forever. God/Jesus will step in and save it to prove who their Messiah was that they rejected, but it won't be without a heavy price!

a reply to: Deetermined

You can’t use what hasn’t happened yet to prove something....

Period..

You also can’t use the New Testament to establish jesus was the messiah. When the new testaments whole job is trying to convince you of that.. so it couldn’t be more biased..

So this is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING god is/was ever going to tell the Jews right???

That god was going to come to earth as his own son. Then be sacrificed to atone for the sins of the whole world. And belief in that dynamic would be the ONLY way to achieve righteousness..

Right???


So where , unambiguously, in one place. Where does the Torah say that??


Don’t do any of this “well if you take a little from here , and a little from there it says that..”

It is the most fundamental and important concept ever..

So what is your best example of that??

a reply to: JoshuaCox

How old are you, Joshua?!

Why do you spend time posting threads about a topic that no one can physically prove and only has texts (and personal experiences) to go by in the first place?

The main point of the entire Bible is....reject God and face the consequences! In all honesty, regardless of what God promises us in the afterlife, there is no true joy or contentment in this life without him. If there was, you'd be spending your time researching and discussing other topics. The fact that you and Akragon spend so much time trying to debate a subject that you don't even truly believe in is very telling. You're looking for answers. You're looking for life fulfillment, but until you realize that you can't and won't find it on your own without the help of your Creator, you're never going to find it or the answers.

a reply to: Deetermined

A) 36

B) why are their like 5 religious forums on ATS when “ it is stuff no one can prove”?

Because online forums are made so people can exchange ideas back and forth..

C) “I only get the warm and fuzzies when I think about jesus.. just like a Muslim only gets the warm and fuzzies when he thinks about Mohammad and Hindus only when they think about Buddha..”

The warm and fuzzies are not objective truth..

D) it is sad that so few Christians HAVE ANY clue about the history of Christianity, nor any clue what it actually says..

a reply to: Deetermined

PS ..

Strangely enough that is not the primary focus for Judaism..

In Judaism you don’t even have to believe in god to go to heaven..

It is a sad scary Christian/Muslim only tradition that has led to countless bloodshed.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

People have spiritual experiences that make them believers, but a non-believer will never believe that until they have their own experiences. So, what are you in it for? What do you believe?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Deetermined

PS ..

Strangely enough that is not the primary focus for Judaism..

In Judaism you don’t even have to believe in god to go to heaven..

It is a sad scary Christian/Muslim only tradition that has led to countless bloodshed.

I'd say that you don't know or understand Judaism, although it appears as though you're making a beginning attempt at it.

a reply to: Deetermined

You got that right..

People have totally subjective, unconfirmable experiences that lead them to a religion. Then try and shoe horn their religion into everyone else’s objective reality..

What you never have is some secular historian or scientist find something in a microscope or other experimentation and then decide “Christianity is real!”

Why is that??

Because it is all in our heads.. well at least 99.99999% chance.

a reply to: Deetermined

Ask any Jew..

There are 7 requirements for a gentile to go to heaven in the Torah..

1) don’t curse the Hebrew god.(you don’t have to believe in him, you just can’t attack him)

2) don’t eat the flesh of a still living animal

3) don’t steal

4) no adultery or sexual deviantcy

5) don’t kill

6) set up courts if they don’t already exist

7) don’t worship idols??(im fuzzy on that last one..)


See that is one reason the Jews find Christianity laughable..

It is totally different from Judaism.


Judaism has no hell..

Judaism has no divine beings

Judaism thinks works>faith

Judaism’s messiahs are mortal kings who free them from slavery.

None of the stuff that is a primary concern for Christians is a primary concern for Jews..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I’m about to go look it up but I’m pretty sure “the mighty god” isn’t inthe originating text.

Im pretty sure it is actually... but that doesn't matter

this is the same as the other thread... this isn't speaking of Jesus... its speaking of Israel

and Jesus wasn't ever called any of those names in any case.... ever

a reply to: Akragon

Yea, it was the prince of peace that is mistranslated.. I mixed up which one they usually changed.

Prince of peace is really “ruler of peace” . Which Christian bibles change to prtray “an heir” or first born son.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

You and Akragon are hopeless. The reason the list says not to curse the Hebrew God or worship other idols is because....THEY HAVE A GOD!

These conversations have gotten so silly that I'm moving on, but I wish you the best in your continued research, you need it.

a reply to: Deetermined

What?!!!

Who said the Jews didn’t think they had a god?!?!

Lol

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: JoshuaCox

You and Akragon are hopeless. The reason the list says not to curse the Hebrew God or worship other idols is because....THEY HAVE A GOD!

These conversations have gotten so silly that I'm moving on, but I wish you the best in your continued research, you need it.

I know where you are going with it but josh is joshing around with word play. A jew believes they themselves are god. A non jew is soulless and if converted a jew the converts dna becomes holy, becomes god. There is no heaven like he said. To a jew, a non jew is in heaven once becoming a jew, until then he is a lesser animal. So josh is not joshing about them not believing in gods, because they believe they are god.