So You Hate The Deep State And Intelligence!

a reply to: Hazardous1408

The IC as a whole serves the National interest. Most do good work, or at least not diabolical work, they are spooks after all.

I think post 9/11 we went through a phase of overly trusting the IC with quite a bit of our freedoms. Now it's Time for the pendulum to swing the other way. Trust but verify......it's a great slogan.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: Hazardous1408

Well who overthrew Allende and many foreign governments and allowed many innocent people to be murdered? It definitely wasn't Army Intelligence.

Also, George HW Bush, a neocon was a Director of CIA.

Let's not forget the CIA drug trade. The CIA itself needs to be dismantled.

Where is the relevance to my point there?

I’m discussing Intel gathering...

You’re now discussing foreign coups and drug smuggling which have never been proven to be Company policy, as opposed to just being rogue abuses of power.

And as radical as it may seem, some places are in desperate need coups anyways.
Usually in nations that wouldn’t have the manpower or resources to complete an overthrow.

As to Allende, that is more a product of the era, as opposed to some greater plan...
A Marxist in Latin America during the Cold War under Nixon’s reign would have been a target with or without CIA help.

But nevertheless, those things have diddly squat to do with the Intel gathering I’m defending here anyways.

You say dismantled, I say purged...
The latter salvages the benefits, the former does not.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
Well I’m under no illusion that this thread will be popular...
But I can’t refrain from documenting these thoughts in the archives.


Firstly, I would like to state I’m far from coming at this from an apologist angle...
I’m just trying to be a logical as I can.



So here goes...

Intelligence gathering does far more than just counter-terrorism...

It prevents local wannabe warlords from controlling territories...
It prevents paedo-rings...
It prevents deadly drug smuggling and distribution...
It prevents rape-slave trade and trafficking in general...
It prevents local gangbanging clicks from turning into full blown Cartels...
It prevents mob uprisings that wouldn’t be conducive to society...
It prevents foreign invasion...
It prevents our elected leaders turning full blown tyrant...
It prevents race-war proliferation...
It prevents hackers from emptying your bank account...

Want me to carry on?
Cos I could... endlessly, in fact.

Yeah, sometimes they fail... Do not attempt to claim I’m oblivious to that.
And yes, some rogue elements even facilitate the above... Do not attempt to claim I’m oblivious to that either.

It doesn’t change the overall benefits it provides, and the protections it guarantees.


It’s really easy to be against that sort of system, but it’s just completely emotion fuelled nonsense with Swiss cheese logic.




“Trade freedom for safety yada yada yada”... A delusional mantra if you ask me.

True Freedom doesn’t exist... Never has or will...
That’s an uncomfortable fact people need to digest, with or without Intelligence gathering.

Safety can exist though...
But truly only with Intelligence...

Remove it, and then see how quickly our little World’s crumble as that list above becomes normal and frequent.


I do not believe it to be perfect, or ideal...
But it’s what I’ll accept as necessary for the whole (especially the defenceless among us) to actually stand a chance in society.

Damn, even in regards to the U.S, which is widely regarded as the pinnacle of civilisation, even the Founding Fathers implemented and relied upon certain Intelligence to fulfil that aspiration.

So... Forgive me for lacking any faith in humanity’s ability to constrict and suffocate their base nature.
But historically humanity has never earned that sort of trust, from me at least.

Personally, I think many people need to get with reality.
Flame on! 😂😂😂

It doesn't prevent anything all of the time in that list.
It doesn't prevent a black market of information to the highest bidder,
It didn't prevent foreign intelligence breaking into other state systems,
It won't prevent state interference, it won't prevent theft, monetary...identity, profiling, money laundering, electronic chaos, wars, the weather.......blah blah.
It does make you subject to some nosy's whim at any time.
Checks and balances don't count. Snowden told you, the red line has been crossed a long time ago.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

The US doesn’t have a deep State.

The definition does not fit, Turkey has/had a Deep State though. Some comparisons can be made, but not many and certainly not all.

The problem though, is that the deep State makes for a very convincing enemy and scapegoat.

As long as people believe there is a deep State, the happier they will be when certain freedoms get lost.

This could be the road Trump is heading, and maybe he’s already started....wanting to restrict the release of Michael Wolff’s book, and “looking into libel law”...what does that mean? Restricting freedom of speech?

I honestly didn’t have massive issues with Trump, but a few alarm bells are starting to ring.

a reply to: Chadwickus

You dont know much history do you?

Cmon man you've been around.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Oh that page reaks of your own work.

Oh how you do love to blow your own trumpet.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with what I just said, but thanks for sharing your self indulgent wankfest

a reply to: Chadwickus

95% citations.

History.

TRUTH.

But hey the Democrat's are just as GUILTY as the Republican's so you had better scatter forget trying to understand so we can destroy the Corruption.

a reply to: smurfy

It doesn't prevent anything all of the time in that list.

And the first thing I said after the list...

Yeah, sometimes they fail... Do not attempt to claim I’m oblivious to that.

Are you aware how much more frequent the listed things would occur without the use of Intel as a deterrent?
Because that’s the point of the OP, which still hasn’t been addressed or contested by posters.

People avoiding reality isn’t my concern at all.
But if someone, even one person, can read the OP and not immediately trigger the emotional cogs in the brain as a self defence mechanism, then that’s all is necessary to me.

What Edward Snowden did was a form of Intel gathering...
Pretty successful as well.

Did it “prevent” anything that would negatively affect society?
Why yes, yes he did.

He is not the example the detractors of my point should use.
He is the epitome of what I’m defending in the first place.

a reply to: Chadwickus

My personal idea of any Deep State is the rogue elements of Gov.
In whatever variation or scale of “dangerous”.

And I thoroughly dislike them.

But the only reason I used it in the thread title is because lately many others have been using the term Deep State to blanket describe pretty much 99% of Intel Agencies, rather than the minority within serving an ulterior motive.

My assumption is that they falsely believe we’d be better off without them entirely.
Thus the thread was born.

The Deep State is here.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

My DNA was already procured after being arrested...

And there isn’t much they could do with it nefariously...
So I do not really worry too much about all that.

No nefarious purpose? Imagine if the Nazis had DNA records...

Every form of government, by nature has to be corrupt, less they wouldn't exist, or be absorbed by another one.

Thing is alot of the things that are mentioned in the op, is stuff the local police force should or dam well, be doing. And if they can't do it then send in the army like a dictator that will tell any rainbow beleiver that this it has to be done.

Uzis aren't made in Harlem.

In a perfect world, violence will not be tolerated!

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Its true. We need intelligence gathering. We dont need domestic spying. We dont need unelected officials influencing elections. We dont need domestic spying. And we don't need the assasination of US citizens