Democratic Senator admits Putin meddling existed "long before Trump"

Realizing the "collusion" narrative is coming to an end, several key Democratic lawmakers have pivoted in recent days from attacking/accusing President Trump of wrong-doing (actually admitting there is still no evidence). They haven't silenced their transparent attempts to get the United States embroiled in a conflict with Russia, however.

Democrat Benjamin Louis "Ben" Cardin from Maryland released a report today, alleging 20 years of "meddling" in Russian/European political institutions. The obvious fact is that Russia does indeed engage in this activity, just like the United States, Germany, France, Israel, UK, and every other major power.

They need to focus on the obvious solution here, which isn't another wasteful proxy war or world-ending direct confrontation. Instead, it is educating the public at large about propaganda and manipulation tactics and how you can defend yourself against weaponized information. Part of the problem is the fact that our own government agencies pump out lies on a continual basis, consistently saturating the information space with BS and garbage further muddying the issue.

Anyhow, this post focuses on the comments by the Democratic Senator which to me represents a clear shift from their standard "collusion" talking points over the last year. This is as significant as hearing a North Korean official say something other than "hostile policy" so it does appear the Mueller investigation may indeed be nearing its end. Of course that is my interpretation. My intent is also to bring attention to the alarming trend to seek conflict or opposition in Russia, instead of ushering in a period of cooperation and global security (like dealing with NK's tyrant before he lobs a nuclear missile our way)

OP source: www.foreign.senate.gov...

Today I'm releasing a #RussiaReport documenting Vladimir Putin's 20-year attack on democratic institutions in his own country and Europe. To protect against what the Kremlin did to the U.S. in 2016, we need to first understand Putin's pattern.

-Senator Ben Cardin - D Maryland's Twitter profile

In the report, the Democratic Senator makes a key concession regarding the false collusion narrative:

“This threat existed long before President Trump took office, and unless he takes action now, it will continue long after his administration. "
-Senator Ben Cardin, D Maryland (directly from the report)

i'm not sure i grasp your point. obviously putin has tried before now to interfere. the question is whether trump was complicit in these efforts, not whether they occured.

a reply to: fiverx313


I was hoping someone would frame this in such a way. Just wanted to double check.

If that is truly the current question, then it is entirely moot at this point. Being "complicit" in propaganda and those other dishonest techniques listed in the report is not a crime, despite the fact no evidence was offered in the report supporting this assertion. Influencing an election via misinformation is not a crime. In fact, it is a very common and standard practice during elections. Both sides play up societal issues and churn unrest in order to gain favor among similarly thinking voters. This is election 101 stuff though

The fact that x influence vs y influence comes from xyz country is completely immaterial. Unless it is a country we are at war with (we aren't), there is absolutely no crime here even assuming all the accusations are true. So what exactly are you wanting to see out of this?

You do realize this isn't going to result in Trump's removal from office, right? It can't possibly. Unless you can show me in the USC which law it actually breaks. I have checked, and there are none.

And the fact that even BBC admits no evidence has been uncovered, I simply ask: "where is the evidence?" If it is so clear cut as a diminishing few claim, why has it taken a year to produce no results related to the above styled allegations? theduran.com...

We've got random unrelated indictments against people other than President Trump, and Senators leaking documents that too contain no evidence or suggestion of unlawful activity on behalf of the President. Now a Senator is admitting the "meddling" threat has existed for two decades. Given the fact that people like Manafort are facing charges over crimes that began before even meeting Trump, I really have to make clear the fact that nothing has implicated President Trump in illegal activity.

Where is all the evidence? Surely a conspiracy of THIS magnitude would've left behind ample amounts of it. After all, weren't "the Russians" extremely sloppy in their DNC operations? Isn't Trump frequently labeled (by the left) as a simple dumb###? To what end will the left pursue this conspiracy theory? What about when Mueller finds nothing? Will it go back to business as usual or will the senseless allegations simply shift to another controversial topic, holding up our government and obstructing the will of the American voters? How complex does the web of conspiracy have to be at this point? A conspiracy of this size and scope would require an operation the size of the Manhattan project. Do you have any idea how large our country is, and what scale we're talking about for 50 separate state elections double-checked by an independent electoral college? This would be a conspiracy that dwarfed the scale and scope of alleged 9/11/01 Bush conspiracies.

I'm just not buying it. And neither is Occam's razor.

a reply to: fiverx313


To summarize:

“This threat existed long before President Trump took office, and unless he takes action now, it will continue long after his administration. "

This isn't a quote a prosecutor would open up with, that is for sure.

You sure you are ready to make this concession?

There was a split in Russia, elements of the KGB worked with the Bush empire to undermine the former soviet union and bring it down. But Putin has revived Russia, so now all the oligarchs that worked to destroy the soviet union want to take down Putin.

These guys are vultures basically, Soros types that use the US to destroy existing governments so they can go in and buy up assets super cheap after the collapse, then later after the nation has recovered they come back in and sell the assets back to the nation they destroyed in the first place.

They often use US or IMF aid to do the work to, that is get loans for the nations so they can buy back the assets at much higher prices leaving them with the debt to pay off.

Another comedian. How many times do we need to be 'told' something we already know.

Anyway, from your link, a more fuller extract including the bits you left out,
"As the extent of Russia’s obvious meddling in the 2016 U.S. election continues to be investigated, it is imperative that the American people better understand the true scope and scale of Putin’s pattern of undermining democracy in Russia and across Europe. That is why I commissioned this report shortly after the 2016 election,” Senator Cardin said. “This threat existed long before President Trump took office, and unless he takes action now, it will continue long after his administration. While President Trump stands practically idle, Mr. Putin continues to refine his asymmetric arsenal and look for future opportunities to disrupt governance and erode support for the democratic and international institutions that the United States and Europe have built over the last 70 years."

Bascially what we have here is a group of people that have known of a 'problems' existence for quite a very long time.

Those same people have no problems interfering in other foreign elections themselves.

See Israel, and Ukraine both recently.

And they actually have the nerve to whine bout Russia.

They paid a foreign spy to undermine a domestic election themselves.

Those same people colluded with the media, rigged their own primaries, rigged their own convention, have had a inquisition McCarthy himself would be proud of.

And this snip just won't stop.

What's been going on is about as corrupt as it gets, and use to be only seen in third world cess pools.

America is no longer a first world country.

originally posted by: JBurns
If that is truly the current question, then it is entirely moot at this point.

agree to disagree

a reply to: smurfy


But I just posted a thread last night about how Trump is in fact not idle, and has taken more action against Russian than Obama did after the meddling claims came out

www.abovetopsecret.com... EDIT posted link

a reply to: smurfy


Trump has done more to take on/oppose Russia than Obama did in response do this. All Obama did was claim to "threaten" Putin, and that Putin "knocked it off." That doesn't sound much like action to me. Trump on the other hand? He's taken all sorts of action against them, sold weapons to their enemies in direct opposition, bombed their allies and continued sanctions regime.

What more do you want? Nuclear war?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: smurfy


But I just posted a thread last night about how Trump is in fact not idle, and has taken more action against Russian than Obama did after the meddling claims came out

i read that. one of your first points was 'probably there IS an investigation but they wouldn't tell US about it'. which, okay.. but... lol

a reply to: fiverx313


Fair enough my friend

I appreciate the discussion

a reply to: fiverx313


I agree with what you are saying here. But given the wide variety of investigations and congressional/agency interest, it is at least reasonable to assume that a counter-intelligence investigation/operation is on-going or took some kind of covert action against them. Admittedly I don't have any information to suggest that theory is true, and that it is only my personal theory

We are only talking about propaganda here, not direct "hacking" or manipulation of the vote tally. Making Russia/other countries think twice about doing anything like that again should be made clear, but clearly this isn't worth fighting a war over. We're talking about social media ads and exploiting social narratives that were being exploited already by hundreds of groups domestically and abroad. I am sure you remember the divisive election of 2016, may we never have another like it!

I'm all for retaliating in a proportionate way, but keep in mind how often we pull this same BS against them and other countries. I bet they felt the exact same way after we deposed the government of Ukraine for a pro-US/pro-EU government That is OK though, it is pretty common.

As the extent of Russia’s obvious meddling

The use of that word is to make the listener/reader feel inadequate and less likely to question the orater/writer on the facts they clearly don't have. Obviously.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: smurfy


Trump has done more to take on/oppose Russia than Obama did in response do this. All Obama did was claim to "threaten" Putin, and that Putin "knocked it off." That doesn't sound much like action to me. Trump on the other hand? He's taken all sorts of action against them, sold weapons to their enemies in direct opposition, bombed their allies and continued sanctions regime.

What more do you want? Nuclear war?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Your full of it, bombed their allies, d'yuh mean slabs of concrete on an airfield....