Chemtrail mystery does air temperature matter

Last week was the coldest week of the year and the sky was absolutely clear of chemtrails. This week it warmed up a little bit and now there are hundreds of trails all over the New Jersey skies. You would think if all these trails are just harmless frozen water and not geo-engineering to keep the political sensitive areas from passing anti-fossil fuel legislation then on the coldest days of the years you would think we would see MORE trails not less. How is that the physics of the fuel changes from one week to the next. The temperature change from 20,000 to 60,000 feet does not change that much over the entire year.

What is special about days when there were absolutely no trails anywhere in the sky? It could be ultra high speed high altitude winds but I don't think the weather between 20,000 and 60,000 feet changes that much all year round in New Jersey.

I want to believe these are all just contrails. But I do not remember any lines in the sky before 2000.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Ground temperature is irrelevant. Contrails are caused by temperature and humidity at altitude. Air temperature rarely changes from ridiculously cold at altitude, but the humidity changes constantly. If the humidity drops too low for contrails, you won't see any.

These are perfectly normal contrails. They've been seen and reported since as far back as WWI. There are more now, because of new engine technology, and the fact that there are hundreds of millions of people traveling every year. That means more aircraft, which means more contrails. The new engines mean more contrails where they wouldn't form with older engines.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You could be right. A lot of people say otherwise. But I am skeptical of all the positions on chemtrails/contrails.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The new engines mean more contrails where they wouldn't form with older engines.

Interesting. What is the reason behind that?

a reply to: EvidenceNibbler


Depending on the engine, as much as 90% of the air that goes into the intake, gets bypassed around the actual engine. It gets compressed by the fan, then blown out the back of the engine where it mixes with the hot exhaust air. The bypass air has a lot of moisture in it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Wasn't this a thing a few years ago with chemtrailers? That chemtrails didn't exist before some time in recent history but then all of a sudden they flipped it and said that old planes make chemtrails not new ones?

a reply to: Shamrock6

The claim now is high bypass turbofans can't leave contrails, so that's what is being used to spray. Although they also claim that the NATO E-3s are registered in Luxembourg because they can avoid regulations and keep using their TF33 engines and use them to spray.

It gets confusing.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

I want to believe these are all just contrails. But I do not remember any lines in the sky before 2000.

Why is it that bad memory must equal conspiracy?

I remember persistent contrails in the 70's. I asked about them then.

But it's also kind of important to understand that at 30,000 feet, it's always really cold. Even above Arizona in July. And when I say cold, I mean like -50c.

Uh. Wha?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Zaphod58

Wasn't this a thing a few years ago with chemtrailers? That chemtrails didn't exist before some time in recent history but then all of a sudden they flipped it and said that old planes make chemtrails not new ones?

Personal Experience: I saw some streaks on a 'Tales of Wells Fargo' episode and original air date was 1959. I grew up in 60's when kids actually went outside and did things and don't ever remember seeing them.
Conspiracy Angle: I've also read that "They" were going back and adding 'contrails' to older films and television shows.

Stay Hydrated...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dfnj2015

Ground temperature is irrelevant. Contrails are caused by temperature and humidity at altitude. Air temperature rarely changes from ridiculously cold at altitude, but the humidity changes constantly. If the humidity drops too low for contrails, you won't see any.

You are correct, but there is one additional factor. When you use the term "humidity" most people think of relative humidity, as used ny your nightly news weatherperson. What is more important as it relates to contrails is absolute humidity, that is, the amount, by mass, of water vapor present. And cold air cannot carry the same amount of water vapor as warm air. The rule of thumb is that the amount of water vapor that can be held is cut in half with each 20 degree (Fahrenheit) decrease, or doubles with each 20 degree increase in temperature. That is one reason you see cirrus clouds in advance of a cold front. The colder, denser (heavier) air undercuts the warmer air and shoves it upward causing it to cool and reach saturation causing a high icy cloud.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: EvidenceNibbler


Depending on the engine, as much as 90% of the air that goes into the intake, gets bypassed around the actual engine. It gets compressed by the fan, then blown out the back of the engine where it mixes with the hot exhaust air. The bypass air has a lot of moisture in it.

The hot exhaust air has even more moisture since burning jet fuel creates water. Jet fuel, as well as avgas, is a long chain hydrocarbon, with each molecule having 26 or so hydrogen atoms, which mixes with the oxygen in the combusted air to create H2O. I could figure out how many hydrogen atoms are in the 63,705 gallons carried in a 747-400, but I won't. But it mixes with about 700,000 gallons of air, or about 140,000 gallons of oxygen. I should have used mass instead of volume but it's fairly equivalent.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm not going to dismiss THAT AT THE VERY LEAST, contrails are being mixed with chemical agents.

What better way to cover weather modification by aerosols than to mix them into the contrails themselves.

I think that lessens the absurdity pushed by the deniers.



ETA: And before I get any responses with the word "proof", I'll just say that not EVERY plane in the sky is dual equipped.

a reply to: EternalShadow

There are problems with that theory too though. You either have to have hundreds of aircraft flying with chemical tanks and ways to disperse said chemicals, or put it through the fuel system.

If it's the first, the modification would be noticeable and someone would have seen it. You wouldn't believe how many people are out just hanging around airports taking pictures of every aircraft they can see.

If it's the second, it has to get around the tests that are done regularly on random fuel samples, as well as the engines. Jet engines are fairly sensitive to strange things going through them. They tend to cause damage that causes wear that reduces the life of the engine.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: EvidenceNibbler


Depending on the engine, as much as 90% of the air that goes into the intake, gets bypassed around the actual engine. It gets compressed by the fan, then blown out the back of the engine where it mixes with the hot exhaust air. The bypass air has a lot of moisture in it.

The bypass air has exactly the same amount of moisture in it as all the other air going around the aircraft. What does that have to do with it?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dfnj2015

Ground temperature is irrelevant. Contrails are caused by temperature and humidity at altitude. Air temperature rarely changes from ridiculously cold at altitude, but the humidity changes constantly. If the humidity drops too low for contrails, you won't see any.

If the air is very cold you'll still see contrails but they wont be persistent. You won't see any at all if the temperature is too warm

a reply to: mrthumpy

It's also not going through the engine like it did with low and medium bypass turbofans.

But hey apparently I don't know what I'm talking about.

a reply to: Zaphod58

zaphod is right dfnj

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: mrthumpy

It's also not going through the engine like it did with low and medium bypass turbofans.

And?

a reply to: mrthumpy

And like I said, what do I know. It's demonstrated fact that high bypass turbofans leave contrails where low and medium don't, and that's the major difference. But hey, maybe it's just magic.