It's Trump's Fault That The Flow of Foreign Students Wanes & U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: seasonal
Is it just me that wonders if anybody here slamming the value of a university education...actually has a degree?

I do not.

My peers do.

While im not saying everyone can do work that typically requires a degree (it took me 15 years of work experience to learn the base skills), I am saying that we over value a university education.

If we focused our efforts more on sciences and less on liberal arts when pushing kids into tertiary education, it would likely work out better. Instead, we spend enormous amounts of money for people to learn job skills that are not in demand. My oldest son has had to change the focus of his employment because he was educated in a field that isn't marketable, save for a select few. Meanwhile my wife spent a year in a vocational program, earned a vocational arts degree in the sciences, and makes more than him as a masters candidate in a liberal arts program.

a reply to: seasonal

Why pay double when you can go to Cali illegally and get a big discount?

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: seasonal
Is it just me that wonders if anybody here slamming the value of a university education...actually has a degree?

I have BA and MBA. I don't think college is worth it unless you attend a top tier school. Otherwise, you most definitely shouldn't be going into large amounts of debt to attend. The job prospects of top tier schools are far better than from lesser known schools. This is why people are so fascinated with the Ivy League and other peer schools.

I've pretty much decided that if my kids don't get into a top tier school, I will offer them the money we saved to start a business.

The reality is that unless you are studying engineering or other more vocational type subjects, there is very little you will learn in college for your job that can't be taught on the job. Employers just use college as kind of a first pass filter for recruiting. The approach is kind of like, "well, he went to Harvard, so we at least know he is somewhat intelligent." 80% of the time they are right... versus just hiring any kid off the street and gambling he can write in complete sentences and do basic math.

a reply to: Edumakated

Actually for almost all jobs your college makes no difference in the long run.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: seasonal
Is it just me that wonders if anybody here slamming the value of a university education...actually has a degree?

I have BA and MBA. I don't think college is worth it unless you attend a top tier school. Otherwise, you most definitely shouldn't be going into large amounts of debt to attend. The job prospects of top tier schools are far better than from lesser known schools. This is why people are so fascinated with the Ivy League and other peer schools.

A university education teaches you how to think. That's a good thing, no matter what field you eventually enter. The issue here is the massive amount of student debt that is taken on. An educated populace is good for society on the whole. Many countries offer a free post-secondary education and that serves the national interest. Bankers...not so much.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

As someone still taking classes college is moving on from teaching how to think and now teaches what to think. Questioning and critical thinking is discouraged by many professors.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Edumakated

Actually for almost all jobs your college makes no difference in the long run.

The college can make a huge difference initially as it may open doors to put you on certain career tracks. However, as you get further away from your college years, your actual work experience is what matters. For the most part, no one will care where you went to college ten years after graduation.

Even for jobs where college degrees are required, they really aren't even that necessary as they can teach you everything you need to know on the job.

For example, when I came out of college I was recruited heavily for Wall Street banking. Most of the top banks have very intensive training sessions of a couple of weeks to teach you everything you need to know about accounting, finance, etc to do the job of an analyst. You literally will have English majors from say Yale going to Goldman Sachs M&A department who never took a single finance course in college. They will be extremely intelligent and will pick up all they need to be successful in a few weeks. It isn't rocket science.

a reply to: Edumakated

Exactly. So spending 200k more on your education to save a few months job hunting isn't worth it for most jobs/people.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: seasonal
Is it just me that wonders if anybody here slamming the value of a university education...actually has a degree?

I have BA and MBA. I don't think college is worth it unless you attend a top tier school. Otherwise, you most definitely shouldn't be going into large amounts of debt to attend. The job prospects of top tier schools are far better than from lesser known schools. This is why people are so fascinated with the Ivy League and other peer schools.

A university education teaches you how to think. That's a good thing, no matter what field you eventually enter. The issue here is the massive amount of student debt that is taken on. An educated populace is good for society on the whole. Many countries offer a free post-secondary education and that serves the national interest. Bankers...not so much.

You don't need college to learn "how to think." If you think college teaches people to think critically nowadays, you obviously haven't been paying attention to what is going on at college campuses.

99% of people go to college because they want a job and career. Nothing more. Back in the day, college was sort of a finishing school for the wealthy, but those days are long gone.

a reply to: Edumakated

You are 100 right. I am still taking courses and see a huge shift in college. Very few professors do anything teaching how to think. It's the opposite. They teach you must think X and no critical thought or questioning is allowed. It's actually disgusting.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Edumakated

Exactly. So spending 200k more on your education to save a few months job hunting isn't worth it for most jobs/people.

It isn't so much saving a few months or more, it is what options you want available upon graduation. My point was you can be an english major at Yale and still land a job on Wall Street or other top/highly selective companies because those companies recruit at Yale. Someone taking out say $75k in loans to attend Yale isn't taking on much of a risk. They will likely find a decent high paying job upon graduation, even if they major in something stupid.

On the other hand, taking on $75k in debt to attend your local Community University isn't as smart because the job prospects are far different, therefore you are taking on way more risk. This isn't to say you won't get a job, but there is little name value in Community U for $75k vs Yale for $75k. So you might as well find the lowest cost option for your education as your University is not what is setting you apart from others. The Yale name has a cache that will stay with the graduate their entire lives, so there is some value there and the initial opportunities that may be afforded so it make sense to take on debt to attend.

Generic Community U has no such cache and therefore it makes no sense to pay Yale costs/debt and you get zero benefit.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: seasonal
Is it just me that wonders if anybody here slamming the value of a university education...actually has a degree?


Would there be a need for loan forgiveness or free college if it was providing the value it's supposed to?

originally posted by: TheLead



Would there be a need for loan forgiveness or free college if it was providing the value it's supposed to?

at the cost it has, they would need to wholly shift paradigms to make it have the value its seeming to have.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Edumakated

You are 100 right. I am still taking courses and see a huge shift in college. Very few professors do anything teaching how to think. It's the opposite. They teach you must think X and no critical thought or questioning is allowed. It's actually disgusting.

I detect a definite disdain for higher education in your posts and yet you are still taking courses. Why bother?

a reply to: seasonal

No love lost over here. University is SUPPOSED to challenge folks and teach them how to think... in the U.S., it has become an echo chamber of propaganda and Group Think.

If you want a REAL education... you will have to go somewhere like Oxford University or another UK or European University that still teaches intellectual rigor, and slaps down logical fallacy as an illegitimate skill set.