Catherine Deneuve Says Men Should Be "Free To Hit On" Women

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: MikeA

no, you seem to be saying that if a guy grabs her butt and then punches her after she slaps him, he isn't a man....
but, if you also men that he's not a man for grabbing her butt to begin with, okay.

Cool I just didn't want to be miss-understood. It takes more than a penis to be a man.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Krakatoa

seems to me that they would have been the first to violence if they tried to kiss me or pinned me against the wall???
no touching, unless I agree??? have no problems with words, will gladly tell you I am not interested, but no, you don't steal kisses, I am not that little girl sitting in the bar as my mom tended bar anymore force to put up with the drunks stealing kisses...

So, someone being interested in you and showing affection is considered violent behavior to you? Wow, I think you might have some serious psychological and anger issues. I'm not advocating someone forcibly retraining you to manhandle you.....jeesh. Get a grip. I'm talking about innocent flirtations and getting personal. For that you advocate striking someone out of some form of wild anger.

And you expect every woman to agree with your actions I guess?

I certainly hope not....because they are very dangerous ideas you have.

May I suggest you get some professional help (and I am not being facetious, but sincere in that suggestion).

a reply to: MikeA

you've been married over 20 years, and I am widowed after over 30 years of marriage...
safe to say neither of us have played the dating game in a long time. but reading the posts on ATS sometimes, it really does sound like people just don't want to bother getting to know each other before they hit the bed together or something....
maybe I am just out of touch or something, but when I read threads like this one, I tend to see them in the worst like.... and that men are actually griping because women are striking back because they don't appreciate strangers, coworkers, bosses or whoever taking liberties with them that should only be reserved for husbands, if them...

the best advice I can give them would be get to really know someone first before you start grabbing their butt, or forcing kisses on them ect. if you can't see yourself spending the rest of your life tied to the person, there isn't any reason to take it any further than just conversation.

a reply to: Krakatoa

forcing a kiss, pinning a person to a wall, grabbing someone's butt, if not wanted, yes, that is violence.
simple conversation, and friendliness is fine with me.... although, I will be more than open about my lack of desire for anything more than friendship.

a reply to: dawnstar

let me ask you a question....
if your wife came home from work and told you about the new guy who had pinned her in the storage room and tried to kiss her, grabbed her butt, whatever....
how would you feel???

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: MikeA

you've been married over 20 years, and I am widowed after over 30 years of marriage...
safe to say neither of us have played the dating game in a long time. but reading the posts on ATS sometimes, it really does sound like people just don't want to bother getting to know each other before they hit the bed together or something....
maybe I am just out of touch or something, but when I read threads like this one, I tend to see them in the worst like.... and that men are actually griping because women are striking back because they don't appreciate strangers, coworkers, bosses or whoever taking liberties with them that should only be reserved for husbands, if them...

the best advice I can give would be get to really know someone first before you start grabbing their gutt, or forcing kisses on them ect. if you can't see yourself spending the rest of your life tied to the person, there isn't any reason to take it any further than just conversation.

I can agree with that. My wife and I dated for 7 months before we slept together, but I'm 53 years old. I full on don't understand this idea of hooking up. ( We got married 1 month later, and the night we did it was the night I gave her the ring. Just BTW.)

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: dawnstar

let me ask you a question....
if your wife came home from work and told you about the new guy who had pinned her in the storage room and tried to kiss her, grabbed her butt, whatever....
how would you feel???

Again, I am not talking about that crap....at all. As I said, get a grip. Not all guys are mad sex hungry animals. Jeesh. Put down that hate you have and assumptions of all men being the same.

Please.

a reply to: Krakatoa

I've already said, I don't think there are many men who would do such things, but I know there are some....
I've also gave a pretty good clue as to why I will not put up with them.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: dawnstar

let me ask you a question....
if your wife came home from work and told you about the new guy who had pinned her in the storage room and tried to kiss her, grabbed her butt, whatever....
how would you feel???

Oh that's an easy one. I would smile and be supportive to her. Then the next day I find him and get sent to prison for murder.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Krakatoa

I've already said, I don't think there are many men who would do such things, but I know there are some....
I've also gave a pretty good clue as to why I will not put up with them.

I rather thought your clue was pretty clear myself.

originally posted by: MikeA

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Krakatoa

I've already said, I don't think there are many men who would do such things, but I know there are some....
I've also gave a pretty good clue as to why I will not put up with them.

I rather thought your clue was pretty clear myself.

I'm sorry I just came back in the house and read that and it sounds a little creepy. Didn't mean to, sorry about that.

a reply to: MikeA

ya, my husband would have had the same reaction.....
better to handle things myself??

and, I am pretty sure I know what you meant by that comment, no worrys...

We keep make this issue more complex than it is.

Of course we can ask women out. Of course we can be polite and not creepy about it. Of course we can appologize when we say something offensive. Of course we can stop being offended if someone asks us out. Of course we can condemn sexual predators and we can condemn creeps like Roy Moore or Harvey W. We can do all this. It's not complicated.

In my decades of living on this planet, I've never had someone be offended by me asking them out or anything. It's really, really easy to not be an offensive jerk. It's really easy NOT to grab a women inappropriately and it's really easy to not say something offense.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Courtship has worked well enough throughout history. She’s exactly right to say an awkward pickup attempt should not be conflated with sexual assault.

It seems in the recent past the answer was "no means no"... Now it seems the typical sexual advances that may lead up to a no or a yes are the ones being attacked. "he tried to kiss me 30 years ago" seems the "no means no" actually worked, so I'm not sure the problem here.

Now we all know there is a difference when a person is in the position of power and they try to use that positional power for sexual advances and that is dead wrong and even illegal in many ways, but I would say it seems we are at the point that even a hint of initiating physical or verbal sexual expressions is a sexual assault.

Perhaps we should go back to the courtship games of Victorian times when everyone was chaperoned and floriography was how you attempted to flirt with someone.

a reply to: Kromlech


I am a man, I have never hit a women or would consider doing so, although it must be said I just ducked in time to avoid an axe thrown at me by an EX which suffered bad Pre Menstrual tension, I didn't duck in time when she chucked a glass milk bottle. But it was a glancing blow.

I was just talking to my daughter. She told me about this 24 year old girl she works with came in one day and told her about this GREAT party she went to the night before. She got so drunk she passed out. She woke up the next morning, naked on a bed and her thighs hurt. Now I'm an old guy and may be out of touch with today's youth but 30 years ago we called that gang rape, not a great party.

originally posted by: MikeA
I was just talking to my daughter. She told me about this 24 year old girl she works with came in one day and told her about this GREAT party she went to the night before. She got so drunk she passed out. She woke up the next morning, naked on a bed and her thighs hurt. Now I'm an old guy and may be out of touch with today's youth but 30 years ago we called that gang rape, not a great party.

That is certainly unacceptable behavior from the boys who did that.

Where though does personal responsibility play a role, go to a party of strangers and get so drunk you pass out is just being dumb and leaving yourself open to abuse, that goes for both men and women.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: MikeA
I was just talking to my daughter. She told me about this 24 year old girl she works with came in one day and told her about this GREAT party she went to the night before. She got so drunk she passed out. She woke up the next morning, naked on a bed and her thighs hurt. Now I'm an old guy and may be out of touch with today's youth but 30 years ago we called that gang rape, not a great party.

That is certainly unacceptable behavior from the boys who did that.

Where though does personal responsibility play a role, go to a party of strangers and get so drunk you pass out is just being dumb and leaving yourself open to abuse, that goes for both men and women.

Pretty much.

Doesn't absolve them of taking advantage to rape. Doesn't absolve her of being stupid enough to put herself in a vulnerable position in the first place.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: MikeA
I was just talking to my daughter. She told me about this 24 year old girl she works with came in one day and told her about this GREAT party she went to the night before. She got so drunk she passed out. She woke up the next morning, naked on a bed and her thighs hurt. Now I'm an old guy and may be out of touch with today's youth but 30 years ago we called that gang rape, not a great party.

That is certainly unacceptable behavior from the boys who did that.

Where though does personal responsibility play a role, go to a party of strangers and get so drunk you pass out is just being dumb and leaving yourself open to abuse, that goes for both men and women.

I can agree with that to an extent. In my 20s I went to party's where a girl passed out. We would carry her to a bedroom and leave her to sleep it off. So in this case I have to say the blame lies strictly with the guys. A passed out girl is not an open invitation.