Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: Willtell

You just reminded me. Did you ever read Levenda's Bio on the To the Stars website. It's very interesting.

Peter Levenda is a native of the Bronx, New York but has lived or traveled all over the United States and the world in the course of his life, work and research... At the age of seventeen he gate-crashed the funeral for assassinated Senator Robert F. Kennedy at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City, and led the procession out of the cathedral. (He graduated high school later that month.) He was a member of the same front organization -- a renegade Ukrainian church in the Bronx -- that provided cover for David Ferrie and Jack Martin (suspected co-conspirators in the JFK assassination).

Now if you remember a while back Zondo claimed there were Ukrainians watching him at the MUFON conference. I wonder....

Interesting. Maybe Zondo is paranoid or there’s something weird going on with the Ukraine.

Levenda is a controversial guy. They say he was the secret author of this magic book called the Necronomicon.


Why he's with TTSA I couldn't imagine. Maybe the money for the books

originally posted by: Willtell
Interesting. Maybe Zondo is paranoid or there’s something weird going on with the Ukraine.

It's more likely that Zondo is as deluded and paranoid as Jim Garrison who naively went after the wildly eccentric Clay Shaw, David Ferrie (even MORE eccentric) and the spineless Jack Martin as a basis for his hopeless 1968 JFK conspiracy trial (the jury laughed it out of court).

Then again, Jim Garrison is probably held up as a national hero in the wackier corners of ATS.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Jim Garrison. Esalen?

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: Willtell
Interesting. Maybe Zondo is paranoid or there’s something weird going on with the Ukraine.

It's more likely that Zondo is as deluded and paranoid as Jim Garrison who naively went after the wildly eccentric Clay Shaw, David Ferrie (even MORE eccentric) and the spineless Jack Martin as a basis for his hopeless 1968 JFK conspiracy trial (the jury laughed it out of court).

Then again, Jim Garrison is probably held up as a national hero in the wackier corners of ATS.

Not to change the subject but I must disagree with you about Garrison.

Though he might have been naïve that one could catch the murderers of JFK he tried at least

originally posted by: Willtell

Not to change the subject but I must disagree with you about Garrison.

Though he might have been naïve that one could catch the murderers of JFK he tried at least

One could regard Garrison as the granddaddy of ATS itself in terms of conspiracy theory (until Jesse Marcel had a late epiphany in the late 70s to kickstart the Roswell debacle).

His 1969 trial was less about attaining convictions and more about setting out his conspiracy stall. The JFK shooting was my own open-minded personal introduction to CT after the 25th anniversary, the pre-internet age leading to massive expenses covering every single angle of the incident, with no stone left unturned. My final conclusion: "Oh, Oswald did it". Marvellous, huh? But they GOT me; that's the name of the game, but I've since left the playing field, never to return.

Oliver Stone's 'JFK' (1991) is pure narrative codswallop, but a beautifully constructed summary of every JFK conspiracy under the sun, and one of my favourite 'political paranoia' movies due to its sheer energy and enthusiasm; I doubt Stone has ever bettered it. I don't think Garrison should have had a cameo as a Judge, though!

Naturally, when 9/11 occurred, I was the last person to risk getting my fingers and wallet burned all over again, although I still admire the imagination and sheer underhanded skill of a film like "Loose Change" to seduce others into their own Conspiracy Hell.

So yes, I do sometimes wonder why the hell I'm on ATS. I'm just in it for the UFOs, man. Everything else can # off. Especially Trump.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Actually one of our most renowned ATS members and conspiracy theory pioneers, and a great UFO guy too BTW, was the great Jim Marrs! Rip! The first major person though to bring out to the public conspiracy relating to JFK was the lawyer Mark Lane.

I unlike many don’t get on ATS because of the current political wrangling the site has descended to. Since they have a right to a business and if the members want that...then so be it. It’s only a phase, it will pass.

I believe despite TTSA, Ufology is ready to get hot soon. Also, Astronomy, metaphysics, religion, and conspiracy will soon have a giant comeback and ATS will then have a boom, and will be the place to be.

TTSA although a failure so far has been the catalyst and inspiration for a resurgence in UFOlogy.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Actually one of our most renowned ATS members and conspiracy theory pioneers, and a great UFO guy too BTW, was the great Jim Marrs! Rip! The first major person though to bring out to the public conspiracy relating to JFK was the lawyer Mark Lane.

Oliver Stone used Marrs' book as well as Garrison's. All excellently written and, like Rendlesham's 'Left At East Gate' (1997), thoroughly exciting, but I simply came to different overall conclusions using multiple sources. I enjoyed the ride, don't get me wrong, but I'll stay away from such rollercoasters in future. TTSA and Rendlesham are more than enough to contend with in the UFO field.

I unlike many don’t get on ATS because of the current political wrangling the site has descended to. Since they have a right to a business and if the members want that...then so be it. It’s only a phase, it will pass.

Oh, absolutely, whatever turns them on. I have no idea what has 'descended' from what, still being a relative newbie, but I expect it will indeed pass once everybody has exhausted their own flamethrowers in the political fighting arena.

I believe despite TTSA, Ufology is ready to get hot soon. Also, Astronomy, metaphysics, religion, and conspiracy will soon have a giant comeback and ATS will then have a boom, and will be the place to be.

With the current 'Project Blue Book' drama still doing the rounds, and Fishburne's 8-part 'Rendlesham' TV series around the corner (and associated books, documentaries etc), a boom may indeed be on the horizon. TTSA needs to shape-up and potentially lead the charge by cutting out the intolerable corporate-speak and wishy-washy announcements of forthcoming announcements of announcements. It is crucial to appeal to the Common Person and the Young at the very least, and not just the old guard. An ageing punk certainly ain't gonna cut the mustard in that regard.

originally posted by: mirageman
Although not directly linked with the TTSA franchise (or whatever it is?) various personnel that have sat or still sit on the TTSA bus have been involved in a bit of banter with Jack Brewer over the alleged pulling of the second part of Whitley Streiber's interview with Diana Pasulka due to security reasons.

Walsh Pasulka, Nolan Decline Comment on Alleged Security Personnel

A recently distributed Unknown Country Newsletter suggested an interview Whitley Strieber recorded with Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka was reviewed by "security personnel" and subsequently not cleared for release. ...

...The following statement was provided by Strieber:

I don’t know what security personnel were involved. We were asked to let the interview be listened to by two of the people we discussed in it. Both of these people are mentioned anonymously in Diana‘s book. I therefore sent them a copy of it. We were told that "security" didn’t want the second interview aired. As we had agreed before hand to do this, we complied. I don’t know anything more than this.


"I respect Whitley but have no comments," Walsh Pasulka replied in part to an email seeking clarification.

The implication is Walsh Pasulka's sources, who reportedly were issued security clearances, acted as liaisons to "security personnel," who nixed the second part of the interview. Similar reports surfaced surrounding Walsh Pasulka's previous interviews. The circumstances seem rather irregular and many questions remain....

An email was sent to [Gary] Nolan seeking comment on the possibility he is "James". He was also asked about the alleged "security personnel" who reportedly reviewed the Dreamland podcast interview.

"I have no interest in commenting on rumors," Nolan replied, adding a smiley emoji.

"But I do support the work you and others do. It’s a hard road we all have taken to find the truth."

... An argument could be made that those involved have responsibilities to clarify the circumstances and minimize sensational speculation. That might particularly be true within a genre which has historically spread tales long on drama and short on facts.... Unfortunately, it is not currently entirely clear whether they are fighting it or complicit in its cultivation.


Full story : The UFO Trail

Make of that all what you will...

Since “make of that all what you will/want” is a common refrain of your’s, I’ll take your bait: spent a semester at Kenan-Flager and just realized from “SacredLore’s” Grant Cameron vid — in the TDL announcement thread — that Lady Di is 17 miles away in Chapel Hill...interestingly enough, Duke University (where I finished grad school) houses the Rhine Institute...”make of that all you want”.

If she is truly over at Carolina, I’m tempted to swing by and introduce myself as a fellow psychonaut and disinterested observer in Catholicism. Again, I’m literally 17 miles away (door-to-door) and would carry y’all’s water if this is truly a fruitful path of inquiry.

As MM would spell out: “Star this post if you want a fruitful attempt at getting to Lady Di’s truth”.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

An ageing punk certainly ain't gonna cut the mustard in that regard.

They should just get PewdiePie on the team and get with the times.

I doubt anyone born after 2000 have the patience to watch a whole boring documentary, let alone read a fracking book....

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

So yes, I do sometimes wonder why the hell I'm on ATS. I'm just in it for the UFOs, man. Everything else can # off

I like your words of wisdom.



I like

Speaking words of wisdom

It's time to let it be.....

The thread is now at 300 pages so please move the conversation to the sequel thread. In the meantime I'll ask the mods to close this one off.

New thread here:

Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...