Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: The GUT

Well.

I'm not a materialist. Far far from it.

I'm not a spiritualist either.

Both approaches are missing the mark.

Evolution is a fact, with very few holes where "god could hide", and fewer by the day.

But I'm not an atheist.

There's even room for epigenetic influence by "the phenomenon".

For example "shamanism" runs in families.. maybe for 7 generations.

It's all science.

But modern science overlooks some things.. is a bit too rigid to discover some of
the neat stuff out there.

Really.. it would take a month to discuss my position.

Kev

And one more thing...

Of course, ignorance and intelligence go hand in hand…

Since if the science boys and girls do stumble on the “origin of creation”

They’ll simultaneously add a colossal ignorance to their meager intelligence

a reply to: Willtell

Whether there was "intelligent design" or "creation" or "just" evolution,
on a daily basis.. go to work, come home, be with a family hopefully...

it's all beyond our pay grade, and probably pointless, right?

I mean "jesus hates cripples", prayer doesn't work, and all religion
is toxic, right?

If we are in a simulation, or are created, or modified by some agency..
it doesn't really matter, does it?

Nobody is coming to reward us or damn us or harvest us.

We are now and may always be utterly alone.

Even if someone "discovers" which approach is the correct one,
after a billion years of certainty, we might discover we are some
12 year olds science project.. and we've been wrong that entire
time.

I don't understand the obsession with faith-based meaning.

Kev

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Science has confirmed that our DNA has not been altered, at all? How do they know? I am probably out of my depth here but I thought that all of our supposed ancestors were all identified with having 2 pairs of 24 chromosomes for a total of 48, but we humans only have 46 with the 2nd pair apparently fused together. Does this type of fusion appear anywhere else in nature? Why are we so different with 46?

When they started looking at the mitochondrial DNA, they discovered that humans suddenly appeared on earth no earlier than 200,000 years ago.

Edit to add:
Also, what about the vast amount of genetic disorders humans have? What is it, somewhere around 4600? Do any of our ancestors show these type of defects? How about the other mammals out there? If we are a progression of darwin evolution, why do we have so many genetic issues?

Hominids have 24 chromosome pairs. Homo sapiens and Homo heidelbergensis have 23. The difference is that our chromosone 2 is a fusion of two chromosomes found in other hominids. But the genes as such show very little difference. The chimpanzee DNA is for example nearly identical to ours.

No idea where you got the 200k years thing from. Can you provide a source?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think too much is being made of that tweet by Garry Nolan here. In fact all I see is him pointing out that he agrees with there being no evidence of our DNA being tampered with. Just that we should not be so closed minded to maintain that view because one day there may be some evidence to change it.

a reply to: The GUT

...On the other hand there's that biological sciences-heavy aspect. And that screams, to me, a search for something else. Something to do with humans. Something to do with full-spectrum dominance.

Yes I don't have the in depth answers we would all like. But again that TTSA Offer document does contain little snippets of information that are relevant here.



They are talking about developing:

Brain-Computer interface technology

Creating a 'Human Ultra-Experience Database' for cataloguing 'supra-normal' experiences

Telepathy

Of course all of this seems impossible with a paltry $2.5m raised so far. But who knows if a certain Uncle is ready to pump in more funds while TTS AAS decides to dilute investors shares to a state of worthlessness at sometime in the future?

It is also interesting to note that there is absolutely no mention of the Community of Interest within the offer document.

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: IsaacKoi

(Bigelow has provided funding to quite a few other UFO researchers over the years).

... Do you have a working list you would share?

Hi The Gut,

Okay, I've spent a few hours today going through my notes and extracting a working (draft!) list of UFO researchers/groups that have received some funding from Bigelow and/or were associated with projects funded by Bigelow (e.g. NIDS).

(I've stripped out my notes and just put the names from those notes in alphabetical order, to make it easier to spot anyone that should be added or removed).

Jan Aldrich
John B. Alexander, Ph.D.,
Victoria Alexander
Mary Allman
Art Bell
Don Berliner
Bigelow Foundation
Warren Burggren, Ph.D.
John Carpenter
Michael Chorost
Bruce Cornet
Phil Corso
CUFOS
Eric W. Davis, Ph.D.
Chad Deetken
Douglas P. Ferraro, Ph.D.
Mindy Floyd
Connie Fox-VanHorne
Stanton Friedman
FUFOR
Christopher ("Kit") Green
Richard Hall
Albert A. Harrison, Ph.D.
Budd Hopkins
Linda Moulton Howe
David Jacobs
Colm A. Kelleher, Ph.D.,
George Knapp
Marcel Kuijsten
Bob Lazar
Roger Leir
John Mack
Edgar Mitchell, Ph.D.
Melvin Morse, M.D.
MUFON
NIDS
George E. Onet, DVM, Ph.D
Martin Piltch, Ph.D.
Roger Pinson
Harold E. Puthoff, Ph.D.
Dean Radin
Theodore (Ted) Rockwell, D.Sc.
John F. Schuessler, M.S.
Science Fiction Channel’s physical evidence initiative
Terry Sherman
Derrel Sims
Yvonne Smith
Leonard H. Stringfield
Michael Swords
Triad Research Conference Foundation
UFORC
Jessica Utts, Ph.D.
Gabe Valdez
Jacques Vallee, Ph.D.
Walter Webb
Ron Westrum
Jim Whinnery, M.D., Ph.D.
Zeta-Reticuli 2 Inc

(I've asked one or two other people that have been named by others as being members of NIDS, e.g. Bruce Maccabee, whether they did in fact get any funding from Bigelow and/or associated with NIDS).

If you want details of the connection(s) between any of the above and Bigelow, just let me know and I'll post further details or send you my notes. I'll be including details of quite a few of the relevant connections in the item that I'm writing anyway (although the focus is just on alleged extraterrestrial metamaterials and alien implants, rather than everything connected to everyone on the list above...).

a reply to: IsaacKoi

" a working (draft!) list of UFO researchers/groups that have received some funding from Bigelow and/or were associated with projects funded by Bigelow (e.g. NIDS)"

And, of course, David Pritchard, working with his wife Andrea.

Good lord, are there any pro-UFO researchers of significance NOT on that list?

And imagine what contemporary UFOlogy would look like if Bigelow had not come along?

Since the TTSA group is so filled with biologist may indicate their hiding something in plain site.

What are they hiding?

The fact that they may have some alien DNA.

a reply to: IsaacKoi

You forgot one important one Isaac.

Bigelow donations to Senator Harry Reid : www.opensecrets.org... the man who put $22m into AATIP. I'm assuming Mr. Bigelow has an itchy back?

originally posted by: mirageman
You forgot one important one Isaac.

Bigelow donations to Senator Harry Reid : www.opensecrets.org... the man who put $22m into AATIP.

I deliberately left out AATIP/TTSA connections (Luis Elizondo, Harry Reid, Delonge etc).

Those involve mulitple cans of worms I didn't want to open in my post above (except where there are other connections outside AATIP/TTSA, e.g. Eric Davis, Hal Puthoff, Kit Green).

I’ve never had any problem with Bigelow. It’s a good thing a billionaire comes along and does things other than just make money.


I know it may be just a government privatization scheme to corner the UFO market, no big thing, its something we know and have to live with.



He may be just an enthusiastic space guy who spends his time and money on what interests him,

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Wow and thank you, Isaac. Yes, it does bring to mind some questions and also some unfamiliar names to research. That should be fun. Just a couple for now:

Is it clear, from your list or any other materials, when Bigelow first started interacting with ufology and/or high strangeness interests? What was he doing prior to his involvement with Coast to Coast?

Also, other than Kit Green's work with experiencers (especially those who suffered adverse affects) are there indicators of any other kind of funding/projects from Bigelow in regards other work? Anything neuroscience related you can think of?

Of all the folk who might have shed some light on some intriguing and outstanding questions, it seems Gabe Valdez was yet another victim of a Bigelow NDA and somewhat effectively shut down in life as regards the probable explanation for cattle mutilations.

On that somewhat side-note: Interestingly enough it appears that used copies of Greg’s (Gabe's Son) book start at $188.00 and Up. Kindle is still $9.99, though, and highly-recommended.

Dulce Base The Truth and Evidence from the Case Files of Gabe Valdez

Greg joined in the conversation on the following ATS thread when his book came out a few years ago and some of y'all might enjoy the interesting discussion wherein you can get the basic premise of the book:

Dulce Base - upcoming book by Greg Valdez

a reply to: IsaacKoi

OK - although as this thread is about AATIP/TTSA connections then that leaves me just a little curious

I also wonder of all the people on that list how many have had their lips sealed with a Bigelow Kiss (i.e. - Non-Disclosure Agreement)?

originally posted by: IsaacKoi
I deliberately left out AATIP/TTSA connections (Luis Elizondo, Harry Reid, Delonge etc).

Those involve mulitple cans of worms I didn't want to open in my post above (except where there are other connections outside AATIP/TTSA, e.g. Eric Davis, Hal Puthoff, Kit Green).

Would that be primarily NIDS and Skinwalker or are there other instances?

Do you happen to know of any defense contract work involving any combination of those players?

I know you have a life, so ignore me if I'm asking too many questions.

Really looking forward to your forthcoming thread(s!)

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Not to belabor the topic. It’s always been said by some that human beings need to study anything that’s makes them better holistically

A man who’s burning might be better served knowing about water rather than about horses and mules

time and place

originally posted by: Willtell
I’ve never had any problem with Bigelow. It’s a good thing a billionaire comes along and does things other than just make money.

I know it may be just a government privatization scheme to corner the UFO market, no big thing, its something we know and have to live with.

He may be just an enthusiastic space guy who spends his time and money on what interests him,

There is absolutely no problem with a billionaire donating money into the study of UFOs and the other 'supra-normal' topics. It's his money and he can do as he sees fit.

But what are your feelings about him expecting people he donates money to keep schtum about whatever it is they find out? You've read the OP.

originally posted by: mirageman
I also wonder of all the people on that list how many have had their lips sealed with a Bigelow Kiss (i.e. - Non-Disclosure Agreement)?

Quite a few, I think. You may know that within the UFO community Bigelow has long had a reputation for not sharing information.

As I posted on Facebook earlier (for its amusement/irony value...), way back in 1998 the MUFON Journal posted an article that included the following line: “The most frequent complaint about Bigelow is that he gathers information, but will not share it”.

(Some others have found this amusing because of MUFON's reputation in the last couple of decades for being a black hole when its comes to UFO data...).

The relevant quote is from the MUFON Journal, December 1998 on page 19 in a review by Dwight Connelly of Roger Leir’s book "The Aliens and the Scalpel

Edit to add: By the way, I think that reputation is somewhat unfair. Bigelow has paid for the dissemination of some UFO publications, so he clearly wants some information shared. However, one common theme in comments on his personality is that he pretty strong willed. It seems that he usually wants things done his way. If he is paying the bills, that doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me. I subscribe to The Golden Rule : the person with the gold makes the rules.

originally posted by: mirageman

originally posted by: Willtell
I’ve never had any problem with Bigelow. It’s a good thing a billionaire comes along and does things other than just make money.

I know it may be just a government privatization scheme to corner the UFO market, no big thing, its something we know and have to live with.

He may be just an enthusiastic space guy who spends his time and money on what interests him,

There is absolutely no problem with a billionaire donating money into the study of UFOs and the other 'supra-normal' topics. It's his money and he can do as he sees fit.

But what are your feelings about him expecting people he donates money to keep schtum about whatever it is they find out? You've read the OP.

I want to remind, again, that the general revelation of the “phenomenon” is not necassarily a virtue in itself.

There’s an old saying

Knowledge without guidance can lead you to hell


Now that doesn’t mean I advocate secrecy. But just as you said he has the right to do with his money what he wants, he also has the right( for whatever reason) to control what his money influences

Now what’s right and what are his rights are two different things.

Since we are generally ignorant then how can we judge whether secrecy is right or not?

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: IsaacKoi
I deliberately left out AATIP/TTSA connections (Luis Elizondo, Harry Reid, Delonge etc).

Those involve mulitple cans of worms I didn't want to open in my post above (except where there are other connections outside AATIP/TTSA, e.g. Eric Davis, Hal Puthoff, Kit Green).

Would that be primarily NIDS and Skinwalker or are there other instances?

Do you happen to know of any defense contract work involving any combination of those players?

Davis did a teleportation study for the USAF around ~1999 I think.