Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: vlawde

"Keep in mind Giorgios started off with Legendary Times. Not sure if he made much money from that, since it folded in 2008, so it's fair to assume most of his money comes from the UFO TV circuit."

I first became aware of Legendary Times when I picked up a copy in a coffee shop in San Diego 10 or 12 years ago. It was a free little newspaper, of minuscule circulation. Looking it over, I thought "so this guy is still flogging the dead horse of Ancient Aliens."

Little did I know!!!!!!

a reply to: mirageman

"followed by the establishment of chain-of-custody procedures and ownership protocols"

Well I hope they do, track record so far ain't the best!

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

Man, talk about detrimental to UFO theory and real UFO investigation it’s Giorgio Tsoukalos.

I just watched the most current Ancient Aliens show ( season 13 I think, not sure of episode)

I hadn’t watched in years.

Man it is bad. The show now defers to Tsoukalos as the industry expert not only in UFO but in topics of archeology too!

How many different ways the show says “ ancient alien theorists...... believe, contend, surmise,” etc. to be able to state crazy theories without any scientific evidence.

Tsoukalos had on the full desert archeological outfit on looking like a extra in Raiders of the Lost Arc. Full with a side kick who asked Tsoukalos questions about the dig they were at and Tsoukalos answering the questions like he is a scholar in the subject.

The real funny part is I did a bit of digging in old Tsoukalos.

He has a BS in Sports Communication. He maws a body building contest promoter from 1992 thru 2005.

No formal education in archeology, history or any other discipline that might help with this topic.

He is purely on the show because of the charisma he brings to the “role” he plays. Pretty unfortunate considering how many people with no background on the subject are introduced to it first by Tsoukalos and the AA crap. And usually never to return to it.

www.ithaca.edu...

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

AA is a slick produced show with a lot of good visuals but you’re right characters like Tsoukalos make the show weak, and all the other dogmatic “AA theorists”.

Every time he says ‘misunderstood technology” referring to the ancients interpretation of UFO phenomenon, it makes me pretty disgusted…like he knows what the ancients knew.


Now he leads a huge show called, of all things--ALIEN CON!

What a name to choose for the subject.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

It seems "sports presenters and former athletes" on TV end up in UFOlogy. There's a British guy who has a similar background.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

It seems "sports presenters and former athletes" on TV end up in UFOlogy. There's a British guy who has a similar background.

Aw don't be shy we all know the loony you are talking about after all he did do AMA on here.

The one the only a legend in his own lunchtime Mr David Icke.

a reply to: wmd_2008

You are so brave. 😂😂

Zondo Does MUFON

Luis Elizondo gave a presentation at the MUFON Symposium this past weekend. This was followed by a short audience question and answer section.



He was also going to participate in a limited (to 100 audience members) Q&A session the following evening. Unfortunately that was cancelled at the last minute and fees were refunded.

Lue was very professional and well rehearsed. I also thought he pitched this at the correct level for a general audience.

I'm first going to give the bullet points from his initial presentation and will cover the Q&As at a later date.

Please note that nothing happens for an hour in the embedded video.

Luis begins his presentation at around 1hr 09mins into the video : youtu.be...

Here are the slides he showed (snapped from YT) and a brief snapshot of what he said



• Nick Pope was lavished with praise for ‘coming out’ a couple of decades ago.
• AATIP stands for Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program
• AATIP began as AAWSAP but he was not involved until it became AATIP




• AATIP Contract was focused on unconventional technology capabilities 40 years in the future and beyond and to ‘investigate the legitimacy of currently observed phenomena’.




• Battlespace Dominance is the DoD's ultimate objective and focus area for the study.




• AATIP was a joint Republican/Democrat initiative to study UAP.




• Vast amounts of data collected and concern foreign adversaries were showing interest in it.
• DoD refused to upgrade AATIP’s status due to conflicting belief systems with some of the top brass.




• Funding ended in 2013 but data was still being collected. No formal closure of the program to date.
• Observations are still being recorded and passed up the command chain.




• AATIP worked with academia, BAASS and intelligence services and many others.
• Hinted that MUFON data formed part of studies but did not confirm it openly.
• Claimed that AATIP is exempt from FOIA...exemptions 1 and 5. To ensure foreign adversaries never see it.




• Denied AATIP ended in 2012 as claimed in other media.
• AATIP found a lot of significant things and generated more than paperwork
• Denied that this was a political favour and pointed out that BAASS won their contract fairly and legally.
• The videos released went through a proper declassification procedure and documentation will probably come out eventually. If we want to see it we can ask the US government (that's assuming that the FOIA exemption does not apply in that case)




• TTSA are slowly releasing information because they want it to be right. So not everything is being released right now. Their data needs to correctly analysed, quantified and qualified before they put this out.

There was a question and answer session too. But that can wait. I'll not comment further until I've covered those too.

a reply to: mirageman

TTSA are slowly releasing information because they want it to be right. So not everything is being released right now. Their data needs to correctly analysed, quantified and qualified before they put this out.

I could/can understand that, IF Zondo hadn’t had years to do so before; what was he doing from 2008 - 2017 when collecting and gathering data, it stands to reason that was his job description, right? Why, once it is tagged and bagged as TTSA, is this QA/QC of their work product (working under the assumption Zondo was tasked with doing so at the DoD) any concern?

Of all the characters involved with TTSA, I’ve got a soft spot for Zondo and ‘believe’ (naively?) him, so I hope TTSA isn’t the con I initially thought it was, for no other reason than I wanna ‘believe’ Zondo — maybe that’s part of the psy-op...Zondo is that ‘Everyman’s man’?

Thanks for annotating the conference speech...look forward to your scholarship regarding the Q&A

a reply to: mirageman

Good work MM!!

I too look forward to your dissertation on the Q&A session and I don't want to steal your thunder, not that my work is near the levels of your own
In all fairness when I listened to it, it was more of an internal TTSA // MUFON Hug and deflection of nearly everything.

Zondo also didn't really answer many of the questions to be honest, he more batted them away with;
"its not my place to say"
"that's probably classified"
"i cant speak for other people, ask them, but they aren't here"
"here's all the reason i cant tell you and the directive numbers, haha owned you"

The meta materials question? he didn't answer the question, more said a Trio of thing rather than answering it directly. I wonder if the lady that asked or any of the others had to submit their questions before hand? He was rather enamoured with her or the question....

He also said that with the information that will be coming out in the next 12 months, that the conversation that will happen in 12 months will be very different..... take that as you will.

But pretty much concluded with;
"Don't worry MUFON, we wont forget you, your still relevant.....honest..., oh and thanks for the data that you didn't realise we nabbed through BASS!!"

Sad thing is that MUFON haven't been relevant for years.. that's another thread probably..

a reply to: pigsy2400

not that my work is near the levels of your own

What is your work? Anything scholarship, or just part of the ATS back-and-forth concerning high strangeness related to ‘the phenomenon’?

a reply to: mirageman

Thank you Mirageman . Outstanding work as usual. Interesting video clip too!

a reply to: pigsy2400

You are very sharp Pigsy on the ball so to speak

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Not to get personal, but I haven't done any threads of interest or put the levels of work into any that MM usually does.

(removes tongue from mm arse)

Normal service resumes

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Well I could understand that TTSA want to put out everything right if they actually could get things right in the first place when they put them out. But we'll come to that. I'll have to go over the Q&A first.

Zondo takes a lot of the heat because, despite his job title as Director of Global Security & Special Programs, he seems to actually be the PR guy. I suspect he'd like to say more than he can and a lot of what he does say is carefully scripted. But he is good at delivering the script. He also looks like he believes in what he is saying.

There were even rumours that he'd had to leave the symposium early because of threats. That may not be true of course. It could just be part of the 'drama'.

MUFON Q&A with Zondo

The Q&A session begins here in the video : youtu.be...

It began with a monologue about how the government aren’t going to do what MUFON does and TTSA aren’t either. Padded it out with various analogies.

The Questions are shortened and paraphrased. People tended to ramble a bit, perhaps due to nerves or excitement. But time stamped YT links are provided below each question for reference back to the video.

Q1: The first question was whether Zondo had ever spoke with John Podesta regarding anything to do with the UFO subject?

youtu.be...

A : This was stonewalled and Elizondo refused to comment saying it would have to be asked to John Podesta.

Q2: Did AATIP use MUFON files for research?

youtu.be...

A: Information from all sorts of places was used but all Zondo would say was that MUFON had a reputation for good, solid work. In other words yes they did but he wasn’t prepared to confirm it for the record.

Q3: Who is behind the wheel? What is the next step now we know about these objects?

youtu.be...

A: We have models in physics to figure out these things and it may only be 25 years in the future. Who might be behind the wheel is the next step for MUFON to help answer.

Q4: Question about a UFO picture from Montreal taken and how it ended up being tampered with by the military?

youtu.be...

A: Not aware of this so couldn’t really answer.

Q5: Could you elaborate on your role at TTSA and the future?

youtu.be...

A : Main role as Global Security Director. But spend a lot of time collecting data and passing analysis on to Steve Justice and Hal Puthoff to determine is it man made or something else? TTSA wants to work with government and others to ‘speak the truth’. There then followed a long scripted speech about TTSA’s ‘entertainment portfolio’.

Q6: Can you tell us anything about the physics of these objects

youtu.be...

A: We are talking about warping space time. Even the earth’s gravity affects GPS satellites. There are some scientific models we have now and it’s just a question of how.

Q7: How did you manage to make $22m stretch so far and how can we get the rest of the government to operate as efficiently as your operation did?

youtu.be...

A: Using friends as much as you can. Leveraging academia. Managing money and resources really carefully.

Q8: Fanboy thanked Elizondo for being there and inspiring a generation.

youtu.be...

A: Thank you I don’t have all the answers but I’ll tell you the truth.

Q9: What led the senators to create the program in 2007? What is your personal view on Roswell?

youtu.be...

A: I can speculate that they had enough information from sources to initiate it. Mentioned his beard was blonde not grey.
Something happened at Roswell. Something crashed and the military were involved. But what was it? I truly don’t know.

Q10: Can you talk about what you dropped off with Hal Puthoff. Do you have bio-material or metamaterials?

youtu.be...

A: Didn’t actually answer what the material he dropped off was. Went through the procedures of analysing materials.He mentions iridium, uranium, strontium and’unique uranium'. Then he talks about making a small ball of uranium-235 and the processes and huge costs involved. Finally summing up that TTSA 'try not to assume"

Q11: You mention in a year’s time we will have a fundamentally different conversation. Ramble about whether national security or humanity would benefit from Zondo’s work.

youtu.be...

A: National Security in a responsible manner is good for humanity. The next generation will have to apply their responsibilities to what happens in the future.
 
Q12: These things are outside our normal physics. What if this could all go wrong?

youtu.be...

A: It’s too late. This is here. He doesn’t actually state what!

Q13: Could you tell us about materials you have handled.

youtu.be...

A: I can’t speak about potentially classified information. But I do feel there is a compelling reason to look into the topic.

Q14: Question about a fictional book about and abductee being trained by the military to communicate with aliens.

youtu.be...

A: I have no knowledge of the book or of this going on in real life

Q15: Is there extra-terrestrial presence here on Earth?

youtu.be...

A: Not a yes or no answer. What I believe is irrelevant but I haven’t all the facts to give an answer.

Q16: Are you guys at TTSA working on anti-gravity?

youtu.be...

A: Wow! Damn! Smirk! We are walking very hard to develop anti-gravity and what that means.


One question that was originally in the video (unless I missed it) appears to now have been edited out. A guy asked questions about executive order EO 13526 defining National Security issues. Zondo shot him down spouting various other EO numbers as to why he couldn't talk about certain things to a rapturous applause by the crowd. However some questions have been raised about his answer as he seemed to be quoting obsolete information.

a reply to: pigsy2400

No worries. I write like I talk (it’s also a function of ATS mobile) — I was genuinely curious: IsaacKoi and MM are true scholars and I don’t get around enough to know everyone, so I figured I’d at least ask. At any rate, you still make solid contributions

DP

Re : Zondo@MUFON

* I was not sure why Nick Pope was lavished with praise for 'coming out' so much. If Zondo gives us only half as much as Nick Pope has told us in 20 years then well what do we have? Half of not much at all.

* The confirmation that AATIP stood for advanced AEROSPACE not Aviation is a direct contradiction with the note from Major AM Harris US Army at the Pentagon to John Greenewald of Blackvault in April of this year and other emails received. So who is wrong here? The Pentagon or Zondo and TTSA?



* The slides mention the terms of the contract with the DIA as studying "Unconventional technological capabilities 40 years in the future." and to "investigate legitimacy of current observed phenomenon". Nowhere in the presentation does it mention UFOs or UAPs. So that points to a study of the 'future capabilities of weapon systems'.

* Again we heard the argument (carefully worded) that people in the higher echelons of the Pentagon choose to ignore the reports of whatever AATIP reported up the chain of command because it is incompatible with their belief systems. There is some sort of evidence that this is a problem lower down the ranks : eu.usatoday.com... .But do Generals in Washington really choose to ignore these reports due to religious beliefs? Or were these reports not as solid looking as we are being told?

* The claim that AATIP is exempt from FOIA is not quite what it seems. "Exempt from FOIA" on documents means that it's exempt from automatic declassification because the contents include details that may fulfil one or more FOIA exemption categories. Zondo even mentioned that the Harry Reid Letter has an exemption from FOIA notice on it. But doesn't explain why it was classified as FOIA exempt but sitting on the website of a Las Vegas News studio. The only mainstream news service he seems to give full interviews to.

* It was argued that AATIP did not end in 2012. Again this is a direct contradiction to Pentagon emails received by John Greenwald of Blackvault. So who has made the mistake here?

* Zondo also claimed AATIP found a lot of significant things. But gave no real evidence as to what those things might be. When it came to the "Authentic DoD Videos" that TTSA claim to have on their website Zondo claimed they went through proper declassification procedure. But if you want the documentation you will have to raise FOIA requests he's not going to provide it. So much for the now worthless statements about giving us "chains of custody" then. None of that has been provided. Do the work yourselves people. That's if of course these documents are not "FOIA Exempt".

^ Finally Zondo claimed that TTSA are slowly releasing information because "they want it to be right". So not everything is being released right now. Their data needs to be correctly analysed, quantified and qualified before they put this out. If everything had gone perfectly then I could swallow that.

But we've had DeLOnge spouting all sorts of unsubstantiated crap on shows for over a year, a mylar balloon picture used as a tic-tac UFO and funds raised on the website not matching accounting filed. Then there are the claims that there would be clear chains of custody provided with everything they release. There are none. So far everything looks dodgy. The videos aren't clear daylight pictures but fuzzy IR. Worse still the DoD refuse to acknowledge they have been declassified or even classified. Is AATIP an acronym that uses 'Aeropsace' or 'Aviation' in its title?

Then we have the things Zondo wouldn't speak about. He won't say UFO. Nobody talks about the 'experiencer' studies either.

But I don't want to be too hard on him. He's the guy who stands up there and doing all the talking now. No matter what you think of TTSA he was very professional and delivered his presentation extremely well. I even think he believes in what he is doing. But I suspect he has been given a tight script he has to stick to and would like to say more.

originally posted by: mirageman
• Battlespace Dominance is the DoD's ultimate objective and focus area for the study.

Battlespace dominance, strategic surprise, first strike capability, anonymity.

That slide it very telling.

“You will know them by their fruits.”

If the phenomenon they themselves believe in has been watching over us for many years, is intelligent (i.e. can decrypt secure communications in English), and has tried to give us some warnings as to our playing with fire (nukes, other unstable technology) ... I can only imagine their assessment of this undertaking.

I would not necessarily think it favourable.

Excellent thread MM and I hope those controlling the narrative reflect honestly on their motivations.