Argh !!! Those Damn Tax Cuts are TERRIBLE FOR AMERICANS !!!

a reply to: face23785

I did. I also read it during the previous cuts.

You linked opinion pieces as well...

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: face23785

I did. I also read it during the previous cuts.

You linked opinion pieces as well...

The numbers in the piece I linked aren't opinion, they're all straight from the CBO report. It won't increase the deficit.

Another I'm-dumb-as-a-brick thread. Hey OP, why not live large? Take out as many credit cards as you can. Vacation, buy stuff, have a blast. Then get back to me in about a year when you're being dragged into court when you can't pay. Sometimes it pays to look at the bigger picture. All those bonuses you gleefully posted won't mean crap when the economy starts grinding to a halt as the debt and deficit soar. We've been down this road before --- or maybe you're a young'n and weren't old enough to know what was going on --- and it was a disaster. Trickle-down economics is a cruel joke. It's kinda like telling a woman you'll go shopping for a ring next week if she drops her britches now. Oh boy! A maybe little tax cut from the guy who pays no taxes. Screw my kids and grandkids.

a reply to: face23785

You are correct. The spending and unknown effects of the global economy does.

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: Outlier13

How is the tax cut going to be paid for? Estimates vary but it could add as much as $20T to the debt.
The answer ding, dong is estimated increased revenues from the tax cut come far short so it will be borrowed. Fiscally conservative republicans no longer exist and you dipsticks continue to prove the only people you care about is yourselves and your rich buddies.

originally posted by: face23785
Adds $20T? Whoever told you that lied to you.

Just to clarify this: The high estimates were an order of magnitude lower than that, around $2T. And even Democrats knew those estimates were bogus because if they were even remotely realistic they could've used that to block the bill. The procedure the Republicans used required the "cost" to be no more than $1.5T. Anything higher than that would've required 60 votes.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: face23785

You are correct. The spending and unknown effects of the global economy does.

No. All of that is addressed. If you read it, you didn't read to understand. Open your mind and read to understand. It's not gonna increase the deficit. The CBO's own numbers can be used to demonstrate why, and this was done in the piece I posted. If you can dispute the numbers, go for it.

originally posted by: jtma508
Another I'm-dumb-as-a-brick thread. Hey OP, why not live large? Take out as many credit cards as you can. Vacation, buy stuff, have a blast. Then get back to me in about a year when you're being dragged into court when you can't pay. Sometimes it pays to look at the bigger picture. All those bonuses you gleefully posted won't mean crap when the economy starts grinding to a halt as the debt and deficit soar. We've been down this road before --- or maybe you're a young'n and weren't old enough to know what was going on --- and it was a disaster. Trickle-down economics is a cruel joke. It's kinda like telling a woman you'll go shopping for a ring next week if she drops her britches now. Oh boy! A maybe little tax cut from the guy who pays no taxes. Screw my kids and grandkids.

There is gonna be no debt and deficit soar as a result of this bill. The CBO's estimate is it will add about $1.5T over the next 10 years. By 2027, we're projected to be $30T in debt. With the added "cost" of this bill, according to them, it will be $31.5T instead. That's not a soar. And those numbers are by no means certain. I linked to an explanation of this on the previous page. Read it if you want to see some reality. You've been lied to.

a reply to: face23785

No you are correct. It's impossible. There is no way the deficit could be raised...

Just like Reagan said before he had to raise taxes.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: face23785

No you are correct. It's impossible. There is no way the deficit could be raised...

Just like Reagan said before he had to raise taxes.

For the deficit to be raised, we'd have to have 1.9% GDP growth for the next 10 years. I challenge you to find a 10 year period where we average that low. It was an unrealistic number to use for the projection. Using a realistic number changes the projection. All of this would be clear if you actually read what I posted. You obviously didn't. You're absolutely unwilling to have your baseless worldview challenged, even if it's with simple math. You're too closed minded for this conversation.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: MOMof3
Good things happen when the government spends money. Maybe this will shut up the deficit hawks for good.

Taking less of our earnings is not equivalent to the government spending money. Good things happen when Uncle Sam takes less money from working Americans, GREAT things happen when he takes less and cuts actual, honest to God spending. Welfare, put your head on Ryan's chopping block now, you're up next.

Say one day you wake up not able to move. Or you get a disease so bad you cant work. Or some #hole steals all your money and identity. You will need something there to keep you from homelessness and hunger. Its reported this tax plan will damage food shelves. And social security is not welfare. Its a fund paid into by you. What about corporate welfare..?

originally posted by: anotherside

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: MOMof3
Good things happen when the government spends money. Maybe this will shut up the deficit hawks for good.

Taking less of our earnings is not equivalent to the government spending money. Good things happen when Uncle Sam takes less money from working Americans, GREAT things happen when he takes less and cuts actual, honest to God spending. Welfare, put your head on Ryan's chopping block now, you're up next.

Say one day you wake up not able to move. Or you get a disease so bad you cant work. Or some #hole steals all your money and identity. You will need something there to keep you from homelessness and hunger. Its reported this tax plan will damage food shelves. And social security is not welfare. Its a fund paid into by you. What about corporate welfare..?

A lot of incorrect things have been said about this tax bill. If everything that's been said about this bill were true we'd all be dead already.

a reply to: face23785

There is nothing simple about economics which shows you are clueless...

The cbo also does not say this nor that it won't create a deficit.

The Senate GOP’s tax plan would increase the deficit by $1.4 trillion over the next 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office estimates

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation determined that provisions in the Conference Agreement would increase deficits over the 2018-2027 period by $1.5 trillion (not including any macroeconomic effects). By CBO’s estimate, additional debt service would boost the 10-year increase in deficits to $1.8 trillion. As a result of those higher deficits, debt held by the public would increase from the 91.2 percent of gross domestic product in CBO’s June 2017 baseline to 97.5 percent.

www.cbo.gov...

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: face23785

There is nothing simple about economics which shows you are clueless...

The cbo also does not say this nor that it won't create a deficit.

The Senate GOP’s tax plan would increase the deficit by $1.4 trillion over the next 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office estimates

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation determined that provisions in the Conference Agreement would increase deficits over the 2018-2027 period by $1.5 trillion (not including any macroeconomic effects). By CBO’s estimate, additional debt service would boost the 10-year increase in deficits to $1.8 trillion. As a result of those higher deficits, debt held by the public would increase from the 91.2 percent of gross domestic product in CBO’s June 2017 baseline to 97.5 percent.

www.cbo.gov...

Nice deflection. I never said economics was simple. If you would READ what I posted, you would see how they're wrong. It's very simple. The math behind the analysis is not very complicated, at all. What you just said is directly addressed. You keep ignoring it because it conflicts with your worldview and you can't accept that, but math doesn't lie.

a reply to: face23785
Economics aren't simple but the math is simple.

Right.

What does this have to do with my worldview by the way?

So far I get "I can't explain anything but I found an article that fits the narrative I am selling"

Good for you

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Unfortunately history is not on your side.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: face23785
Economics aren't simple but the math is simple.

Right.

What does this have to do with my worldview by the way?

So far I get "I can't explain anything but I found an article that fits the narrative I am selling"

Good for you

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Unfortunately history is not on your side.

Actually what you got is an explanation of why the CBO projection is unrealistic and you refuse to read it. And history is precisely what the analysis I linked relies on to demonstrate it. You've made ignorant comment after ignorant comment because you refuse to read what I posted. I can only assume you're afraid to read it because you only want to read things that fit your narrative. You're invested in believing the tax bill raises the deficit, so you refuse to look at any information that contradicts that, regardless of how easy to understand it is. You're dedicated to remaining ignorant on this issue. I won't waste any more time on you. Enjoy your delusions. Your view relies on not believing in grade school level math.

originally posted by: dothedew
a reply to: Outlier13

Well before you get too excited, AT&T is getting sued for laying off 4,600 workers after promising all of their wonderful bonuses...

link: arstechnica.com...

I mean other than that, the tax cut is legit.

Weak argument and one I already addressed pages ago. You need to read the underlying context of that lawsuit. Just another corrupt workers union who has been bilking corporations for overpaid workers so AT &T decides to lay off the overpaid workers in favor of contractors.

There was a time when worker's unions held legitimate value for the American worker. Today they have become nothing more than a strong arm tactic. They are as complicit and corrupt as the major corporations they work for.

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: Outlier13

How is the tax cut going to be paid for? Estimates vary but it could add as much as $20T to the debt.
The answer ding, dong is estimated increased revenues from the tax cut come far short so it will be borrowed. Fiscally conservative republicans no longer exist and you dipsticks continue to prove the only people you care about is yourselves and your rich buddies.

lol...another triggered liberal incapable of posing an argument which is par for the course absent of any facts. And in typical fashion you are depending upon SOMEONE ELSE to do the work for you. Go do your own due diligence and find out for yourself before you continue your butt hurt whine fest.

a reply to: anotherside

Social Security isn't part of the $800 Bil I mentioned earlier in this thread, nor is Medicare. That money is all medicaid and miscelaneous federal welfare programs. And yeah, I am opposed to corporate welfare and subsidies, it's why I protested against TARP and the auto bailouts... but I certainly don't consider cutting taxes to be a manner of welfare since it is purely an exercise in not stealing more of someone else's earnings versus giving away money that was obtained through such thefts to those who did nothing to earn it.

As for the "one day I lose it all or am sick or..." stuff, that's why I've paid into workman's comp, social security, disability insurance, it's why I'm educating my children, it's why I don't sit here today holding a mountain of debt, and it's why I have a Plan B involving living in a remote cabin off the grid where my cost of living can be as low as I need it to be if I ever am forced to tighten the old belt.

This tax plan will put more food on my shelves... food I will be able to buy and stock up on thanks to seeing less of my earnings taken from me via threat of legal force.

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: dothedew
a reply to: Outlier13

Well before you get too excited, AT&T is getting sued for laying off 4,600 workers after promising all of their wonderful bonuses...

link: arstechnica.com...

I mean other than that, the tax cut is legit.

There was a time when worker's unions held legitimate value for the American worker. Today they have become nothing more than a strong arm tactic. They are as complicit and corrupt as the major corporations they work for.

This. Unions were very important for workers rights, decades ago. Today they mostly just have to invent issues to keep their fat-cat perks coming. Same with civil rights leaders and so many other issues. What do you do once you achieve your goal, disband and give up your power? Nah, they keep trying to milk it.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: anotherside

Social Security isn't part of the $800 Bil I mentioned earlier in this thread, nor is Medicare. That money is all medicaid and miscelaneous federal welfare programs. And yeah, I am opposed to corporate welfare and subsidies, it's why I protested against TARP and the auto bailouts... but I certainly don't consider cutting taxes to be a manner of welfare since it is purely an exercise in not stealing more of someone else's earnings versus giving away money that was obtained through such thefts to those who did nothing to earn it.

As for the "one day I lose it all or am sick or..." stuff, that's why I've paid into workman's comp, social security, disability insurance, it's why I'm educating my children, it's why I don't sit here today holding a mountain of debt, and it's why I have a Plan B involving living in a remote cabin off the grid where my cost of living can be as low as I need it to be if I ever am forced to tighten the old belt.

This tax plan will put more food on my shelves... food I will be able to buy and stock up on thanks to seeing less of my earnings taken from me via threat of legal force.

Whoa you mean actually being responsible with your money and being prepared? What a ridiculous concept. That's not very progressive. It's probably racist too.