After you get through the gates of heaven what is eternal heavenly bliss like

a reply to: ketsuko

Just a better way of understanding what I meant in Isa 45 so you don't get the wrong Idea. sometimes I forget that people have diffferent ideas of what eveil and what English Grammar it is used in i.e. noun, verb, adjective etc.

The Hebrew word for “evil” appears over 600 times in the Old Testament with a variety of meanings. Genesis 2:9 and Isaiah 45:7 illustrate two of the many possible translations. Can the Bible be true when stating that God, the Pure and Holy Creator, made or creates evil? It all depends upon the context where “evil” occurs. Without proper word or contextual definition, what “evil” means to the reader or interpreter may cause serious misunderstanding of a Biblical passage.

In Genesis 2:9 there is the basic definition of evil by contrast: evil is the antithesis of that which is “good”. As the Oxford English Dictionary explains: “…this word (evil) is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of disapproval, dislike, or disparagement. In modern colloquial English it is little used, such currency as it has being due to literary influence. In quite familiar speech the adjective is commonly superseded by bad; the noun is somewhat more frequent, but chiefly in the widest senses, the more specific senses being expressed by other words, as harm, injury, misfortune, disease, etc.” In other words, there is a tendency for the modern reader to assume “evil” can only be associated with moral failure, or that “evil” exists as a standalone condition with no comparison or association with the absence of good.

Another way of explanation is to look at the contrasts in Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil…” Darkness is not actually “created” but it is the absence of light, for without light there could be no darkness. Therefore, God “creates” darkness by “forming” the light. God “makes” peace and thereby, any absence of “peace” is the ‘creation’ of evil. Without “good” there can be no concept of “evil”: without love, there can be no hate, etc.

It is the later sense I wrote of God taking responsibility for evil.

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood
a reply to: AMPTAH
Anyone in this life who falls into a pit has the possibility of climbing out or finding a way out.

That all depends on how deep the pit is, right?

That's where you get to "complete" the message, and "fill in" your own interpretation that suits you.

How deep you see that parable referencing ideas connected with the concept of the "pit" is just the limits you put on the message. Those limits aren't there in the actual message at all.

a reply to: dfnj2015

So lately I've been wondering what Heaven would be like. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what it means to experience eternal heavenly bliss? Do you still walk around and talk to people? Or are you so busy experiencing bliss you do not have any time for conscious thought or experience time at all. I think when you are in a state of eternal heavenly bliss you just exist in the state of bliss. I don't think you have time for conscious thoughts.

You can get a lot of different answers on that subject depending upon what religion you are talking about. The first century Jesus movement believed that the abode of afterlife was in the third heaven. That would be considered as being in paradise [Luke 23:43.] 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 tells us that paradise is in the third heaven or [celestial realm] out of this universe. The Nazarene's believed that this abode was in the first division beyond this universe called The Kingdom of Heaven.

This Kingdom Of Heaven was given to the Adamic race after Jesus died. Till that time all spirits were kept in Sheol or underworld of the dead. After the death of Jesus, these justified souls who were in Sheol were released from Sheol and allowed in to the Celestial Kingdom Of Heaven. The unjustified spirits were left in Sheol and remain there till this day. All people are judged at death and are now either sent to Sheol or The Kingdom Of Heaven.

In Revelation 2:7 this paradise of the afterlife has the trees and water of life and in the 22nd chapter of Revelation it is told that there is a new celestial city named New Jerusalem which is where the trees and water of life are found. So in effect we now see Shoel as Hell where the ungodly are contained and The Kingdom Of Heaven where all of the godly are given a new body to cover their spirit and a new name. This is called their resurrection [new life]. All people are now judged immediately upon death and given this resurrection or damnation. This is basically the doctrine of Jesus as taught by His brother James and not of rabbinic Judaic teachings.

It is taught, by tradition, that after death and being resurrected in the Kingdom Of Heaven, that each of the resurrected are given schooling as to the new language and mysteries of life. The celestial city of New Jerusalem with all of the justified souls descend onto the new world which contains justified animal life as well as planting and harvesting crops of various grains etc. This is described in the 65th chapter of the book of Isaiah.

Along with this tradition is that of the resurrection of the ones who were not accountable in life such as the aborted and mentally challenged who were never given a chance to accept the Christ Jesus. Isaiah relates this as the children are given 100 years of human life [flesh and blood] on the new earth and then die and be judged the same as all souls must experience.

The New Jerusalem has three gates on each of the four sides of the city and angels guarding each gate. Only justified judged souls can leave and enter theses gates. Now after all have lived and died and been judged, we are told no more. Whether we build a first class civilization, we are not told. Whether there are more divisions of Heavens, we are not told although the ancients did believe that there are from seven to ten heavenly divisions.

Hell has already been judged at the death of each person that enters hell according to the doctrine of Jesus. Otherwise there would be no hell. Hell is destroyed at the end of this creation and that means all that are in hell are destroyed. Rabbinic Judaism teaches that hell is only for punishment for one year. Those that enter hell are purged with celestial fire and their spirits made clean. They are then released to the celestial realm of New Jerusalem for everlasting life. Only the spirit that will not repent will face utter destruction.

There is much more but basically this is the doctrine of Jesus. The Sadducee's had no belief in any sort of afterlife such as did the Pharisees. The Jews of today have basically four to six denominations [movements] and differ one from the other also. So as you can see, it depends upon what you decide to believe.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: intrptr

I am not a Roman Catholic, I don't live a wicked life 6 days a week and differently once a week. I am a sinner saved by grace through faith on Jesus.

Once again you attack the messenger and not the message.

A violation if the T&C here at ATS.

I have not violated TnC, The message is corrupted, you aren't a messenger.

originally posted by: intrptr


I have not violated TnC, The message is corrupted, you aren't a messenger.

Really?

Every Christian is a messenger.

That's how the Gospel is supposed to spread.

Anyone that brings you the name "Jesus Christ" has done his part in delivering the message.

You don't have to be a Priest or Preacher, apostle or original disciple.

In fact, you don't even have to be Christian.

As Jesus says,

For he that is not against us is on our part. -- KJV, Mark 9:40

So, even non-Christians are helping to spread the message of the gospels. And they are to be treated the same, as valuable messengers from the LORD.

a reply to: AMPTAH

What do you personally know of grace, AMPTAH?
Grace understands the depth of the pit is irrelevant, though it may impact the response of the rescued one.
The idea that there are levels of intellectual blindness is pure pride and ego.
Either you are in a pit and need saving, or you are not.
Either you are thankful for you rescue or you are not.
If you are attempting to intellectualise your hierarchy within the pit, you understand nothing and you are still lost.

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood
a reply to: AMPTAH

What do you personally know of grace, AMPTAH?
Grace understands the depth of the pit is irrelevant, though it may impact the response of the rescued one.

No, I did not know that Grace has any understanding.

Are you saying that by God's Grace we get understanding?

The idea that there are levels of intellectual blindness is pure pride and ego.

That's not what the bible says.

Here is what the scriptures say,

To give subtlety to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. -- KJV, Proverbs 1:4

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: -- KJV, Proverbs 1:5

To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. -- KJV, Proverbs 1:6

There we see the division into "simple" people, and "wise" ones. And the same instruction is "dark" to some, i.e. the "simple", but comprehdsible to others, i.e. the wise etc..

I didn't invent this. Read the scriptures carefully.

If you are attempting to intellectualise your hierarchy within the pit, you understand nothing and you are still lost.

Again, this flies over my head. I understand the things I understand, other things are still a mystery.

All is not to be known until the last days, anyway.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: dfnj2015
Did you know that the Roman Catholic / Evangelical Easter they claim to be the resurrection day. If we follow the exact calendar of the Jews, the resurrection day of Jesus Christ this year fell on the Thursday April 20th of our Julian Calendar.

So when it talks about Easter in the Act, it is speaking of a pagan Holiday that Herod was a follower of, not a Christian holiday as many would want it to be. This is why Easter bunny's and Egg hunts are not for Bible believing people at all.

The only languages that use the word 'Easter' are English and German. All other languages use versions of 'Pascha' which is from the Hebrew word 'Pesach' or Passover.

None of the New Testament was originally written in either of the English or German languages and the word 'Easter' did not even exist in the English language, during the 1st Century when the New Testament was written.

All all of the oldest extant ancient texts we have were written in Koine Greek, with a few Syrian Aramaic words interspersed, and they ALL use the word 'Pascha' in Acts 12:4 (Interestingly, the KJV translates the same word, 'Pasha' as 'Passover' in all other 28 times in the New Testament but replaces it with 'Easter' only in this one verse).

Later translations, such as the Latin Vulgate which was the preeminent translation for a long time (and before the KJV) also use 'Pascha':

"quem cum adprehendisset misit in carcerem tradens quattuor quaternionibus militum custodire eum volens post pascha producere eum populo"

The only other English translation of the Bible that uses the word 'Easter' in Acts 12:4 is the Tyndale translation (earlier than the KJV). The earlier again Wycliffe translation and the earlier Reformation Geneva bible (which pre-dated the KJV by 51 years) both use 'Pesha/Passover' as do all later English Bibles.

But the truth is that either 'Passover' or 'Easter' work in that verse, in the sense in which it is used. It does not change the verse's meaning nor represent the slightest doctrinal divergence or 'error' between translations.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Really?

Every Christian is a messenger.

That's how the Gospel is supposed to spread.

You're too full of yourself.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: AMPTAH

Really?

Every Christian is a messenger.

That's how the Gospel is supposed to spread.

You're too full of yourself.

Really? That's news to me.

But that's good news if true. Jesus said "be full".



So, it's not a bad thing.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
The soul cannot really die. That which is alive cannot die. The soul is eternal.

Genesis 3:4

At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.

Changing it up a bit to "your soul will not die" doesn't really change who came up with this lie, false story/myth.

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal

What is the origin of the myth?

“The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 11, page 25.

What does the Bible say?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”​—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.​—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23

FACT:

At death a person ceases to exist

Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

What is the origin of the myth?

“Of all classical Greek philosophers, the one who has had the greatest influence on traditional views of Hell is Plato.”​—Histoire des enfers (The History of Hell), by Georges Minois, page 50.

“From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms . . . The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism [the teachings of Plato].”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 25, page 890.
...
What does the Bible say?

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, . . . for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.”​—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, Revised Standard Version.

The Hebrew word Sheol, which referred to the “abode of the dead,” is translated “hell” in some versions of the Bible. What does this passage reveal about the condition of the dead? Do they suffer in Sheol in order to atone for their errors? No, for they “know nothing.” That is why the patriarch Job, when suffering terribly because of a severe illness, begged God: “Protect me in hell [Hebrew, Sheol].” (Job 14:13; Douay-Rheims Version) What meaning would his request have had if Sheol was a place of eternal torment? Hell, in the Biblical sense, is simply the common grave of mankind, where all activity has ceased.
...
FACT:

God does not punish people in hell

Your phrase "The soul cannot really die." is a direct contradiction of Ezekiel 18:4:

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—King James Version.

Thank you for making it that obvious for those who care about what the bible really teaches.

1. How are we exposed to human knowledge as never before?

PRESENTLY, there are about 9,000 daily newspapers in circulation worldwide. Every year some 200,000 new books are published in the United States alone. According to one estimate, by March of 1998, there were about 275 million Web pages on the Internet. This figure is said to be growing at a rate of 20 million pages per month. As never before, people have access to information on just about any subject. While this situation has its positive aspects, such a superabundance of information has caused problems.

2. What problems can result from access to a superabundance of information?

2 Some individuals have become information addicts, always feeding an insatiable desire to be up-to-date while neglecting more important things. Others acquire partial information about complex fields of knowledge and then view themselves as experts. Based on only a limited understanding, they may make crucial decisions that can cause harm to themselves or to others. And always present is the danger of exposure to false or inaccurate information. There is often no reliable way to verify that the flood of information is accurate and balanced.

3. What warnings regarding the pursuit of human wisdom are found in the Bible?

3 Curiosity has long been a human trait. The dangers of wasting too much time in the pursuit of useless or even harmful information were recognized back in the days of King Solomon. He said: “Take a warning: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh.” (Ecclesiastes 12:12) Centuries later the apostle Paul wrote to Timothy: “Guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’ For making a show of such knowledge some have deviated from the faith.” (1 Timothy 6:20, 21) Yes, Christians today need to avoid unnecessary exposure to harmful ideas.
...

Source: Firmly Uphold Godly Teaching

18. What deplorable spiritual condition is experienced by those who regress to false worship?

18 After learning Bible truths, how tragic it would be if one regressed to false worship! The Bible describes the sad consequences of such a course when it says: “Certainly if, after having escaped from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, the final conditions have become worse for them than the first. . . . The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: ‘The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.’”—2 Peter 2:20-22.

19. Why is it vital to remain alert to anything that can endanger our spirituality?

19 We must remain alert to anything that can endanger our spirituality. The dangers are real! The apostle Paul warns: “The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.” (1 Timothy 4:1) We live in “later periods of time.” Those who do not keep clear of false worship can be “tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.”—Ephesians 4:13, 14.

Source: Keep Clear of False Worship!

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: AMPTAH
The soul cannot really die. That which is alive cannot die. The soul is eternal.

Genesis 3:4

At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.

Changing it up a bit to "your soul will not die" doesn't really change who came up with this lie, false story/myth.

Adam and Eve didn't die, did they?

They died a "spiritual death", i.e. "separation from God", but they were still alive after eating the forbidden fruit.

If you say they died, then we are all dead, until the Holy Spirit gives back life to us.

There are different concepts of "death" being referred to.

Death as "extinction" doesn't exist.

The soul is always somewhere.

a reply to: AMPTAH
Adam and Eve died (you sound almost like a typical bible critic who likes to argue God lied to them about the penalty of eating the forbidden fruit and Satan told them the truth because they weren't completely dead within 24 hours; a lame argument that doesn't seem worthy of responding to, and changing that up to introducing the concept of spiritual death as opposed to physical death doesn't even deviate that much from still pretending they didn't die "in the day" they ate from the fruit, conveniently ignoring that "day" doesn't necessarily have to refer to a 24 hour-day, certainly not for God*). Anyone who is able to post here is not dead. It's clear to me where the teaching "you certainly will not die" (connected to the teaching of the immortality of the soul) comes from. Change it up all you want, the core philosophy is the same and your phrase about the soul still directly contradicts Ezekiel 18:4.

*: 2 Peter 3:8

8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

Psalm 90:4

4 For a thousand years are in your eyes just as yesterday when it is past,

Just as a watch during the night.

Genesis 5:5

So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: AMPTAH
Adam and Eve died (you sound like a typical bible critic who likes to argue God lied to them.

God didn't "lie", but he didn't explain to them what that "death" meant.

In God's eyes, Adam and Eve were "children", and "innocents", and parents don't tell their children all the details behind restrictions of what to do or not.

Satan used a different concept of "death" to tell Adam and Eve that they wouldn't die. He lied in the sense that he knew better, he knew what God meant when using the word "die". And he knew he was shifting the meaning to another form.

But, of course, Satan doesn't explain this to the "children" either.

a reply to: AMPTAH
Elaborating on Ezekiel 18:4, verse 13 mentions:

Because of all these detestable things that he has done, he will surely be put to death. His own blood will be upon him.

You'll need to do some heavy twisting to interpret that as referring to "spiritual death". And after giving a bunch of examples regarding verse 4, verse 20 once again reminds the reader that:

The soul* [Or “person.”] who sins is the one who will die.

If you read the whole chapter it's very clear that it's not talking about "spiritual death" but actual death.

Oh, and you said "the soul is eternal", instead of "immortal" (and after describing immortality with "The soul cannot really die"). If you really meant "eternal" then you are equating souls with the eternal attribute of God, which in reality, is unique to only 1 being, God (ignoring time itself for a moment cause it's a bit irrelevant regarding my point, just leaving a clue why I phrased that as "unique to only 1 being" in comparison with other beings, not concepts). So I'm guessing you meant immortal. Cause otherwise it's so typical again of humans wanting to elevate themselves to equality with or even superiority over the eternal God, a mental attitude/spirit that is such a familiar feature in the descriptions of Satan and those who are referred to as the "offspring of vipers" in the bible. The latter referring to the connection and influence of "the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan" (Rev. 20:2) over them, which includes falling for his teachings and "the teachings of demons" (1 Tim 4:1). Which are obviously going to be well disguised as bible teachings or correct Christian doctrine or spiritual illumination/enlightenment or falsely called "knowledge" (as described in the bible they would be).

Let's analyze your line of argumentation a little further, the bolded part in particular this time:

The soul cannot really die. That which is alive cannot die. The soul is eternal.

Are you realizing that with the bolded part you are in essence arguing or implying that anything that is alive cannot die? That sounds quite compatible with the doctrine of reincarnation (allthough still contradictory regarding the usage of the word alive, therefore I don't think the bolded part is taught alongside reincarnation by those favoring that philosophy). It's not really much of an argument anyway, more of a 'just-so' story. It seems like you want to use it as some kind of clarification for the first statement or sentence though. But it ends up denying the whole concept of death alltogether for anything that is alive. What happens to "death" if we accept the teaching that "that which is alive cannot die"? Aren't the concepts of "dead" and "alive" related to one another as antonyms anymore? What's the point of even having the word "dead" as opposed to "alive" in our language if "that which is alive cannot die"? In my opinion, all 3 sentences or statements made above are quite clearly incorrect and contradict the bible, and at least 2 are obviously or best described as utter nonsense to me. I can't find a more polite or respectful way to describe it (well, perhaps if I give it even more time and effort).

a reply to: AMPTAH
Fact: that which is alive can die

Evidence:

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: AMPTAH

Really?

Every Christian is a messenger.

That's how the Gospel is supposed to spread.

You're too full of yourself.

Who are you full of?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: AMPTAH

Really?

Every Christian is a messenger.

That's how the Gospel is supposed to spread.

You're too full of yourself.

Who are you full of?

The search for truth.

Which you find less of in Church, btw.

a reply to: chr0naut

We have no originals to know if copy really reads Pascha or another word.

But we do have a preserved Bible in English that God preserved for us in English and God says the word is "Easter". Which signifies it was a pagan celebration at best

Remember all the pieces of the existing copies of the NT cannot be verified. Even in 1611 they had only bits and pieces of copies no ORIGINALS.
Without Originals there is no way to verify their accuracy.

Therefore faith in God to preserve them correct to our generation as promised in Ps12:6, 7 if what we must have faith in.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: AMPTAH
Fact: that which is alive can die

Here's what Jesus says..

Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do?..." -- The Gospel of Thomas #11

What you call "life" there is actually "matter" being "animated" by the invisible "life".

When the matter stops being animated, you call it "death".

But, all that's happened is the "life" has moved on elsewhere.