After you get through the gates of heaven what is eternal heavenly bliss like

I one time had an argument with someone about religion. I was in my twenties and much more irreverent than I am now. I really got this guy angry at me and he started talking about eternal damnation and where my soul was going to go when I died. I said, "how bad can it be it can't be as bad as living in New Jersey." He did not crack a smile and was completely tight lip and serious. I had to work with this guy so I decided to throw him an olive branch. I said I've been thinking about Hell. And for Hell to work, the torture involved can't be the same thing every time because if it were a repeating pattern you would eventually get used to it over eternity. So the torture in Hell must be like an irrational number. That is it is never the same numbers every time and it never repeats the further you keep going on with it. My Christian friend really like this idea. His eyes light up and he said, "Yeah that's it" as I imagined he was salivating over the idea of me being torture for all eternity. I really never understood why some Christians take so much joy in prospect of other people suffering for all eternity.

It also seems to me suffering for all eternity is the most extreme cruel and unusual punishment imaginable for finite crimes. It's hard for me to accept a God of love would be so cruel as to allow his Creations to suffer for all eternity.

So lately I've been wondering what Heaven would be like. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what it means to experience eternal heavenly bliss? Do you still walk around and talk to people? Or are you so busy experiencing bliss you do not have any time for conscious thought or experience time at all. I think when you are in a state of eternal heavenly bliss you just exist in the state of bliss. I don't think you have time for conscious thoughts.

Well there are a lot of people who will end up being heartbroken when they get to heaven and realize their loved ones were faking their faith and didn't make the cut. I can't imagine being in heavenly bliss knowing that my child or parent is suffering in hell for all eternity, but maybe God makes you happy that they're suffering?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Heaven is whatever your Happiness is. It is your creation with God's blessing.

And Hell is when you choose to hate everything and so hide from God in your self imposed isolation and darkness, brooding and agonizing over existence.

They are choices you make in your Heart.

After you get through the gates of heaven what is eternal heavenly bliss like?

Never having to listen to American politics again.

THAT would be eternal heavenly bliss.

I don't think either Heaven or Hell are places or states of being we can actually really conceive of.

In Heaven, the bud is the best. Each time you try it is stronger and tastier.
I don't know how they import the scotch from Scotland, but somehow they do - and it's the best scotch you've ever had.
You can sleep late and party all night. Tons of sex, if you want it, and everyone looks totally hot.
Heaven is awesome!

Hell, on the other hand. It's just boring as hell. Mormons everywhere and tons of other "religious" people who just don't get it.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Firstly, I don't believe Hell is God explicitly torturing people for eternity. That doesn't fit the nature of any God I'd ever want to know.

But God has given us sensory abilities. They are part of who and what we are at our core.

To understand the possible consequences, we need to explore things philosophically and by reason:

We know from measurement that our individual nerves occasionally miss-trigger and that all neural network structures only operate on the cumulative actions of many 'signals'. This protects from spurious miss-triggers (which, we have established, do occur).

We also know that our consciousness, who we are, also called our soul, arises from our personal neural network, which is shaped by experience and repeated 'directions' of choice (an entrainment of the actions of our will in the actual structure of the net. We literally 'become' the choices we make).

Surely our non-physical selves must have similar structures to our current physical selves, so as to carry our essence? It is, therefore, reasonable to assume that our spirit bodies reflect essential organizational structures of our physical bodies, but 'written' onto the new substrate of our 'spirit'.

If the limitations upon our neural net became unbounded by translation to the new medium. There would have to be other limitations imposed to prevent our 'neural net' from being sensitive to every signal. Otherwise, we would feel every sensation, at random: hot, cold, pressure, smells, sounds, proprioception, pleasure and pain in a confusing avalanche of meaningless signals. If our spirit configuration had faster process/reaction times than the physical, it could well appear to us that the sensations are many and continuous.

So, perhaps we might feel we are 'burning in Hell'?

Coupled with the idea that Hell is "separation from God" (very heavily documented in the Bible), which implies separation from all He creates and pervades. In short, such separation implies that the person would be in an existence that consisted of nothing but themselves.

So, we have an eternal state of being where we are burning forever, alone and without hope of rescue. It isn't by God's fault or God's doing. It is just a consequence of the way things are and of our personal choice. Something that God has been loudly warning us against from the earliest times.

That's enough to think about right now. I'll actually talk about Heaven in another post.

Cheers for the thoughtful topic.

a reply to: chr0naut

I think there is something to the bereft of God bit. I think all of us have a connection to Him whether we want it or not on some level.

I think to go to Hell is in part to be forever severed from Him. As we always live with that tiny connection now, we cannot conceive of what existence forever cut off from it is or would be like.

If humans had never developed self-consciousness, we would never have the knowledge that our existence would end, nor the imagination to wonder what (or if) any existence would follow. A natural result is the fear of “what happens next?” and feeble attempts to fabricate unsubstantiated afterlife scenarios.

No-one has the ability to grasp what perpetual regret looks like.
Or the idea of being the recipient of an amalgamation of people saying 'dude, this is candid camera! Don't swallow it!'
But you do.
No-one is there to rub it in, remind you, laugh or ridicule you.
No-one is there but you.
The only audience is the anonymous after dinner conversation of all your bad decisions that you didn't subscribe to engage with.
Oh dear.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I one time had an argument with someone about religion. I was in my twenties and much more irreverent than I am now. I really got this guy angry at me and he started talking about eternal damnation and where my soul was going to go when I died. I said, "how bad can it be it can't be as bad as living in New Jersey." He did not crack a smile and was completely tight lip and serious. I had to work with this guy so I decided to throw him an olive branch. I said I've been thinking about Hell. And for Hell to work, the torture involved can't be the same thing every time because if it were a repeating pattern you would eventually get used to it over eternity. So the torture in Hell must be like an irrational number. That is it is never the same numbers every time and it never repeats the further you keep going on with it. My Christian friend really like this idea. His eyes light up and he said, "Yeah that's it" as I imagined he was salivating over the idea of me being torture for all eternity. I really never understood why some Christians take so much joy in prospect of other people suffering for all eternity.

It also seems to me suffering for all eternity is the most extreme cruel and unusual punishment imaginable for finite crimes. It's hard for me to accept a God of love would be so cruel as to allow his Creations to suffer for all eternity.

So lately I've been wondering what Heaven would be like. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what it means to experience eternal heavenly bliss? Do you still walk around and talk to people? Or are you so busy experiencing bliss you do not have any time for conscious thought or experience time at all. I think when you are in a state of eternal heavenly bliss you just exist in the state of bliss. I don't think you have time for conscious thoughts.

Some believe hell is eternal though it's not exactly scriptual so let's just assume we don't know. Humanity is not immortal
Heaven is relationship with God and each other
We must have conscious though, we wouldn't be human otherwise, remember Jesus is fully human
We are relational beings created for relationship with God, sounds like to many bad tv shows you have been watching

Jews don't believe in eternal torment, some don't believe in eternal life

a reply to: dfnj2015

Firstly, there are no direct descriptions of the eternal heaven which is what we know for the most part is not spoke of in the Bible.

There are very little about things that happened "from everlasting" where such things that took place before the earth is made habitable for his newest creation "Man". Such things would be the creation of angles, God throne, the creation of Cherubs, Seraphims and Cherubims. Also the fall of Lucifer, we have a hint in Isaiah and Ezekiel and the fall of 1/3rd of the angles that Lucifer brought down with him.

Then we have very little things about "to everlasting" which of course our current time period of 24/7/365 falls into. We do have a description of a throne city called the New Jerusalem, from its description men tend to attribute all its attributes to heaven or the abode of God which Paul called the third heaven. Which we need to be careful in adding to the word of God.

Point being the Bible is more concerned for man kind and that God is powerful enough to save them spiritually and keep them saved forever.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I said I've been thinking about Hell. And for Hell to work, the torture involved can't be the same thing every time because if it were a repeating pattern you would eventually get used to it over eternity. So the torture in Hell must be like an irrational number.

Yes, Hell is simply a place where the same thing repeats over and over, perpetually.

This version of Hell is well illustrated audio-visually in the American TV Series titles "Preacher"

In the bible this Hell is referred to as "the pit".

In The Gospel of Thomas, for example, we find the saying,

Jesus said, "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will both fall into a pit." -- The Gospel of Thomas #34

You can imagine a Lion that falls into "a pit" and has lost it's freedom to roam around the landscape at will, and is now stuck "going around" the same small perimeter of the pit, unable to get out of it himself.

This time in Hell is also referred to as "the second death."

In the Second Death, your passions are all a-rage, you want to do things, but you cannot do anything, because you're trapped, unfulfilled burning desires, which is refereed to as the lake of fire and brimstone. It's like the smoker who can't find his next cigarette. Unable to experience that temporary "satiation" that you were accustomed to, whenever you had this or that desire. Now the desires all burn without quenching.

When people say "death", in common everyday language, they often mean separation of soul/spirit from fleshy body, which the scriptures refer to as "the first death".

Experiencing of "the first death" is not so bad, despite human's natural fear of this type of dying. This is simply a "loss of possessions and attachments". But, your soul is free. You could re-incarnate, and experience a new life, for example, with a new body. With "the second death" however, things change dramatically for you, the soul is now "trapped" in some repeating state, which it can't get out of. Much like Ghost Busters capturing a ghost in their Electromagnetic Box Trap.

That's why Jesus says,

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. -- KJV , Matthew 10:28

So, fear not the death of the body, but that of the soul, which, by definition, is the soul getting "stuck" in the pit.

The soul cannot really die. That which is alive cannot die. The soul is eternal.

So, either you have eternal freedom to roam the omniverse and experience all there is, or eternal damnation experienced perpetually as imprisonment in "the pit" of hell.

If you've ever had a friend who constantly needed that "fix": cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever..and observed their emotional state when they "couldn't" get their periodic fix, then you'd have a "glimpse" of what hell is like for the souls dwelling there. Hell is exactly the same, except much more "intense" and the stay is much "longer" than the suffering to the next relief the addict experiences.

Hell is simply the addicts withdrawal therapy session.

a reply to: dfnj2015

It's hard for me to accept a God of love would be so cruel as to allow his Creations to suffer for all eternity.

Don't bother arguing dogma with the cult of churchianity , they have to believe or they are going to Hell, too.

But you are seeing clearly. God is worse than Hitler, at least hitler killed people outright, God tortures them forever and ever and ever.

But he loves you.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I think when you are in a state of eternal heavenly bliss you just exist in the state of bliss. I don't think you have time for conscious thoughts.

Then lower the bliss level if you want to be focused on thinking instead of feeling. If people who are playing around in the bliss states (kundalini and chi manipulation) can do it in a human body then it should not be a technical problem to do it in a more advanced body.

The divine is only allowed to force 1:1 knowledge/awareness as punishment. It is part of the moral perfection. Everything more than the mirror is a corruption. They are allowed not to care and allow you soul to fall to the level of your fruits. The further down the more insanely predatory souls.

a reply to: intrptr

You have complete, utter and absolute freedom to choose your surroundings.
Everyone is born into a shallow, temporary shack that is essentially a burning building.
Are you happy to stay there, or do you look for a building with foundations?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Ok, Heaven...

I firstly want you to look at an overview of human technological development in communication:

We started with very local methods, requiring that we be right in front of each other. As technology progressed, we discovered methods that could carry a message across distance and time. We have invented symbols and mathematics and body language and languages in this effort towards carrying our thoughts and feelings to another. None of the methods to date are perfect. We can envision the pinnacle, which is mind to mind sharing, but we are not there yet.

When a movie, or music or even a still picture, architecture or sculpture stir emotions, we preferentially 'like' it in droves. Because it communicates!

Our communication devices are getting smaller and more ubiquitous, our message sharing prioritization structures are (arguably) becoming more sophisticated (Youtube/Snapchat/Facebork/ATS etc?). And the ultimate goal is obviously communion, a meeting of minds. By communion, I'm not talking about the ceremony or Streiber's book.

To me, communion is foundational to 'Heaven'. Nearly all other aspects of Heaven fall rationally from communion.

Also, it is interesting to realize that all sins are things that block communion.

Consider the sin of 'pride'. It is victimless, it motivates us to do better and it has decided evolutionary biological advantage. Yet it is called the greatest of the sins? Pride is a sin because it is individualistic. No prideful person could open up themselves to share in a meeting of 'lesser' minds.

Heaven is not about loss of identity it is about communion. Linked minds but retaining their full identity.

We know about co-processing data with linked processors but this is also very small scale. Consider the power of the internet is just the linking of processing power stupider than the average insect. Imagine what a 'Conscious Being Internet' could be if it were the exponential product of all minds?

That, combined with similarly shared emotion and experience, sounds more like Heaven than harps, robes and clouds!

In the Bible, Jesus tells us that people do not marry, or are given in marriage, in Heaven. Jesus said it is a place, His Father's house, and that He will prepare 'mansions' for us there in this house. He also describes an entire city, heavenly Jerusalem, in this same house. So heaven is constructed and has something resembling spatial relationships.

Also, if we retain our 'selves' as the Bible suggests, surely our intellect, curiosity and creative urge will find expression in Heaven.

But consider, you are able to link minds. So the first ones you link are loved ones, whom you know and feel safe with. They in turn, will do the same, linking to further loved ones who are safe and known. This would naturally repeat, growing a new community.

But such a link requires a two way acceptance. At no stage would someone whose pride and worries of inferiority are paramount, allow themselves to be so 'violated' and exposed. They would choose to exclude themselves from heaven!

And, without any physical consequences of doing so, and deep control of their own minds, the linked group could choose to trigger a few pleasure pathways. They could always turn it off if it causes a problem. And so a state of bliss would naturally be shared and probably never turned off. Note that this would not be like some drug addled somnolence. More like the glow of sexual release and of achieving something great. One could still remain 'themselves' and curious and playful with full mental facility.

So, aside from the religious overtones, which are not easy to explain, that is a bit of what I think Heaven is likely to be for me. Wonderful, fulfilling, important,sharing, blissful and I'd bet the art & music there would be literally out of this world!

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

[You have complete, utter and absolute freedom to choose your surroundings.

Most people are under compulsive forms of obedience, mired down by tradition and ritual.

There is no absolute freedom, as you go on to state:

Everyone is born into a shallow, temporary shack that is essentially a burning building.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

I think there is something to the bereft of God bit. I think all of us have a connection to Him whether we want it or not on some level.

I think to go to Hell is in part to be forever severed from Him. As we always live with that tiny connection now, we cannot conceive of what existence forever cut off from it is or would be like.

Totally agree!

I think that very few actually ponder much deeper than some sort of Saturday morning cartoon depiction of Heaven or Hell.