Another "F-117 Companion" thread and a bit of history!

a reply to: Forensick
Dont confuse the different Gulf Wars. Boomer was only ever talking about the 2003 Iraq War, not the Second Gulf War in 1990. There is no indication that the Companion flew EW missions in 1990. In fact, the Companion only expanded into the EW realm after the EF-111A were retired in the late Nineties (and may have missed the Kosovo War beacause of it).

A rabbit hole to jump down..Looking at the evolution its Ef111,Prowler,Ec-130 and now Gulfstream..Or have I got the order wrong..
Electronic Attackers secret mission..

Anyone thought about an idea that Companion became true Companion when Aardvark gone in the late 90's? Back in 1991, there were reports of a new stealth type deployed to take part in operation Desert Storm. Boomer never said that Companion was deployed to Desert Storm, instead, he admitted that it was used during the first few nights of OIF.

So what were those reports from 1991 year? If it wasn't Companion then what could it be?
Reports back then from the early 1990s suggested TR-3A designation but there is no real aircraft with such designator.
It is complately WAG on my part but maybe there was something(a missing link) between a Tacit Blue and YF-23? According to Zaphod there was and it wasn't Companion but another bird.

Everyone remember about the famous Boscombe Down incident that happened in 1994. It was post IOC so it means that it had to be at least few years old at the time. According to the witnesses of the incident, the involved aircraft had inward-canted tails so we can guess supercruise capability. ASTRA program? Who knows?
The most interesting is that a few SR-71s were brought back to service, not long after the Boscombe incident. I don't know if it is connected or not but timeline matches pretty well. Maybe Boscombe incident led to the cancellation of the project?

It is all speculation but.... you never know.

According to the witnesses of the incident, the involved aircraft had inward-canted tails so we can guess supercruise capability. 

Erm, okay...

a reply to: SpeedFanatic
Dont overhtink this. The is no reason to think that the aircraft in question wasnt used during Desert Storm. It most likley was, just not as an EW platform. I seriously doubt boomer135 was serving during Desert Storm. Chances are he hadnt even joined up yet.

a reply to: SpeedFanatic

The only chatter I recall around that time about stealth was solely talk about the 117.

Post IOC? I'm confused, if we know this mystery aircraft was IOC we would know what it was...am I missing something?

a reply to: wileel

Where does it say that IOC or even FOC means it has to go public?

a reply to: wileel
missing a core concept.

black aircraft that are IOC, Post IOC and even decommissioned cause they are so old and outdated often do, can and have remained very classified and with little to no chatter regarding them outside very closely held and guarded circles and communities.

so it would be no surprise people have never heard of its existence. not sure why this concept hasn't taken some hold in your thought process yet since it's been explained to you or why you keep making illogical jumps in your thinking.

your argument is in line with the thinking that because some Ninja used a secret technique to dispatch his victim that since it's been used its not a secret anymore and public. maybe ninja-san makes a living or relies on this technique. why would he disclose that he knows it or how to do it just because he uses it on some target?

with this discussion of EW/ECM don't let certain posts go over your head. otherwise darkhelmet and D.U.D.E will be very disappointed.

Zaphod

I didn't say it HAD to be public.
Speed said "Everyone remember about the famous Boscombe Down incident that happened in 1994. It was post IOC so it means that it had to be at least few years old at the time. " All I am pointing out is that "IOC" is speculative and probably just a poor choice in words, not a big deal. We don't know if a mystery a/c was IOC, in test or a squirrel flown cabbage...if we did it wouldn't be a mystery.

BASSPLR

Which core concept, existence or EW/ECM? If my comments are drifting the thread I'll gladly refrain, sit back and giggle

I don't feel I am making illogical jumps, I don't need to...I'm just reading a responding to the words posted. Just now you say:
"black aircraft that are IOC, Post IOC and even decommissioned cause they are so old and outdated often do, can and have remained very classified and with little to no chatter regarding them outside very closely held and guarded circles and communities. " This is exactly what I had been talking about. Once you use an asset like an aircraft in a deployment situation/environment or operate it outside your controlled environment's the risk of exposure increases...wouldn't you agree? Recall a certain photo from Kandahar?

So, again, from MY experiences keeping something like this (operating an aircraft in combat situation) completely black would be VERY hard since there is no longer a "guarded community". As it was allegedly witnessed from a member that shows my point of how the cat gets outta the bag. Since we only have one "credible" (not detracting from his credibility in the slightest but who knows, it is the internet) witness account and not 20 that tells me its operating environment would have been EXTREMLY tightly controlled....this is not a combat environment.

Don't worry not much goes over my head...my reflexes are too good

a reply to: wileel

Unless you're going to argue that every person that says they saw it is lying, we have multiple reports of it being used operationally. There aren't many scenarios where you're going to send something in testing or a one off platform into an operational combat situation.

originally posted by: wileel


So, again, from MY experiences keeping something like this (operating an aircraft in combat situation) completely black would be VERY hard since there is no longer a "guarded community". As it was allegedly witnessed from a member that shows my point of how the cat gets outta the bag. Since we only have one "credible" (not detracting from his credibility in the slightest but who knows, it is the internet) witness account and not 20 that tells me its operating environment would have been EXTREMLY tightly controlled....this is not a combat environment.

The "operating environment" in this case was a Al Udeid AB in Quatar. An isolated airbase (especially in 2003 before it was expanded) with many secluded aircraft hangars. This way more secure to TTR, Edwards South or Palmdale.
The reality is, flat out exposing secret aircrafts by taking pictures of it 'in the wild' is a very rare occurence. In fact, besides the RQ-170 operating in broad daylight from Kandahar International Airport, it basically hasnt happened yet. And the RQ-170 affair was probably deliberate anyway.
Doesnt mean there are no secret aircraft of course, just that spotting them is awfully hard. They kept the F-117 secret for six years after it went IOC and nobody got a picture of it. The same is true for the Tact Blue aircraft (they did more than 100 flights!), Lockheeds Polecat, Boeings Bird of Prey, etc.

a reply to: penroc3
ibb.co...
im just going to post this again

a reply to: wileel
ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a reply to: wileel

also 312s exist for a reason.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

312


fill one out and fax it to me, and ill post all you want to know...jk

Yup, you must be right...everyone in these areas where it operated signed 312's after being debriefed in the event they may have seen something...doesn't work like that. Thanks for the info but your not going to teach me anything about SAP/SAR debriefing and disclosure agreements, I'm all too aware.

I was only aware on one sighting from the postings here (the boomer), so if there are more so be it, and I'm not saying everyone is lying. On the contrary...if they are legit, great, but we need to know the circumstances which nobody until now posted...I thought I was clear about that.

Hmmm...the deed prior to 03 was more secure and secretive than TTR? I didn't think so...but I will give you it was less visible than places like Dhahran or Tabuk.
ITs not just about pictures, I agree that is beyond VERY rare.

"Doesnt mean there are no secret aircraft of course, just that spotting them is awfully hard. They kept the F-117 secret for six years after it went IOC and nobody got a picture of it. The same is true for the Tact Blue aircraft (they did more than 100 flights!), Lockheeds Polecat, Boeings Bird of Prey, etc."

Again these are examples of VERY controlled environments, and not in the wild...you are reinforcing my point.

originally posted by: wileel
I was only aware on one sighting from the postings here (the boomer)

What sighting are you talking about?

G'day all, longtime daily lurker of this forum and essentially a first time poster and figured this thread was as good as any to dive into ATS on!

First of all i'd like to give a shoutout to Zaph, I totally get where he's coming from when he says its amusing watching threads in the aviation forum pretty much nail something on the head and then a few pages later everybody has gone chasing down rabbitholes and talked themselves out of it. Was there any reason the VS-07 was dismissed as a "possibility"?

Personally ive believed in the 'companion' since Boomer135s first mention, however a few things stood out to me at the time and i feel they would bring some clarity in-lieu of Boomer popping back here himself. 1st point, I dont believe there was ever reference to 1991 Desert Storm but to 2003s OIF & OEF. 2nd point was that he didnt just have a "sighting" but refuelled it in the box near Groom and got a photo of it, and then saw them in a hangar (@ Diego Garcia?) Beside F-117s during OIF (and im assuming he then refuelled them on mission ops.) 3rd point - Are we all assuming it was a "companion" for the F-117 in its mission role? When infact they may have just been "hangar companions" for the sake of OpSec?

Curiously here in Oz we retired the F-111C/G & RF-111C in 2010 and the F/A-18F & EA-18G are considered our "stop gap" ever since. I'd like to think the RAAF were shown something from our USAF brothers that made putting our Pigs to rest all the more worthwhile.

Cheers

a reply to: Ironside800

there is a clear lineage to the VS-07

i think it's obvious there is 'another', but who am i.

if people saw the pic they might be a little disappointed, not that i've seen a secret aircraft.

there was another thread and one of the pictures in there looked very close to what i think it looks like

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to:

i think it's obvious there is 'another', but who am i.

Im in total agreement with you, there was once upon a time I wouldve bet the farm that the F-19 existed, mainly because I had so many toy F19s as a young child. But when Zaph says "No" we listen.... I was gonna insert a pic of 1 of the toys I had, but im still an ATS nufty, if you are familiar with the Ring Raiders Cartoon and matchbox toys you'll get the drift.