Another "F-117 Companion" thread and a bit of history!

Again you present good stuff to discuss...and I agree with where you are going to a point.

Im with ya...its a hell of a stretch the AF would allow themselves to be in a position where they need the help of another service to do their job, I'm just spit balling here. It seems like there are enough Navy assets to handle it in the event a package needs a traditional EW escort.

I cant speak to the actual threat during that time gap but I do know that was when we started getting way more pods for our legacy aircraft to carry. I tend to think the evolution/miniaturization of the EW systems was why the 111 and f4's were let go. Although one a/c with a pod wont be the same if you puts them on several of the a/c it may dealing with threats manageable. During that gap we only had one focus...pounding sand and dealing with very low tech threats. Unless I'm wrong, after the first week or so of DS1 the need for that traditional EW roll was reduced to almost nil.

Although the 111's technically may have some hours left on paper, they were pretty well toast, it would have been challenging to support it for several more years. Although it was bad ass, it came with a price...these things were rode hard and put away wet and we were very low on parts by the time they transitioned out. Too bad because it was VERY good and the EW role for the time

I don't see a stand alone traditional EW aircraft slated for the future. I believe stealth, on board/carried ECM/EW and stand off capabilities are where we are heading as well as RPA's but that is not the topic here.

a reply to: gariac

I am well aware they operate from the ground. But they don't normally fly them to the threat zone and then fly from ground bases. So if the carrier can't launch or is forced out of the area, the strike package is screwed is the point.

a reply to: Jacksonsman1

he still hold a very high office with NASA i tried sending him a message but their site wouldnt let me

a reply to: wileel

The Ravens wouldn't have been easy to support, but neither is supporting a lot of the aircraft we have now. It could have been done, at least long enough to build something new. Even if it was an SOJ B-52 or MC-130 as an interim platform, it would have made sense.

Now we're in the position of Air Force crews flying Navy aircraft as supposedly the only EW platform available. They may eventually get the APG-77 and -81 to where they can do more than just radar, as they claimed for awhile, but for now, on board EW and the old pods floating around just aren't going to cut it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

there is NO way the air force would yield its mission control to the NAVY, that is just not realistic to me. there wouldn't be enough to go around in a real peer to peer fight.

there is obviously something maybe like the RQ-180 or the amarillo bird flying these types of missions, and with all the swarm news coming out it would make sense to me to have many smaller EW drones out there, heck in the new video that was just posted it showed the drones avoiding pop up threats on their own.

a reply to: penroc3

Oh IDK. The Navy is at least making their next gen jammer...

hey guys anyone remember when LAX shutdown for an evening cause its radar got spiked on accident....err I mean malfunctioned. ...malfunctioned.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I remember that, good demo I mean malfunction

a reply to: Zaphod58

I think the USAF screwed the pooch and basically tried to kill everything to support the F-35 IMHO.

They are now this really unsustainable mix of a short run of F-22's, F-35's that may or may not be up to the mission, a 60 year old bomber that really needs new engines, A stealth bomber that is 5-6 crashes away from being NOT combat ready in the B-2, ZERO dedicated EW birds other than some 130's, and repeated efforts to kill off the A-10, the F-15, etc.

They punted on JSTARS to be honest (not a pound for air to ground comes to mind) And if the USAF does not want to do the CAS mission then they should kill the Key West Agreement and let the Army do it.

The other services are in no better shape mind you. We either need to lower expectations or add more money AND fix procurement.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Zaphod58

there is NO way the air force would yield its mission control to the NAVY, that is just not realistic to me. there wouldn't be enough to go around in a real peer to peer fight.

They lost that F-117 cause the did not have enough jamming support (it got pulled to protect a B-2)

a reply to: FredT

That and they flew the same flight path to many times over a very smart and capable SAM team.

Even with a tottaly signals denied area that nighthawk was coming down

Don't under estimate the Serbian commander that tookit out.

a reply to: penroc3

Interesting... I'll have to look in to the gentleman. Don't want to detract from the Companion talk as it is good . I'll continue my lurking. Love you guys

a reply to: penroc3

more like an oops forgot to turn that off and an ass chewing later I'd speculate

I think we can all agree there is a gap in capabilities that presumably is being filled via black aircraft. Maybe we should be looking for what replaces the companion to garner what the companion was?

Have we ruled out the companion NOT being a modified F117? Plenty of EW gear and sensors could have been fitted in the weapons bay. If they flew together the it could act as eyes/ears/EW for the "bomb truck" F117 itself. Perhaps talking via infrared? Just a random thought. Plus it could be hidden in plain sight then lol...

a reply to: E92M3

the doors would have to be modified to allow transmissions in/out without having to open the doors, but i could see how it would be a simple/elegant tweek

a reply to: penroc3

It is really hard to make an antenna that doesn't reflect RF. I think the F-117 had a retractable antenna.

It would be worth looking at how the F-35 handle radio. It isn't really stealth, but just low observability. But the idea is the same.

But if you are doing EW, by definition you are transmitting and thus not stealthy.

When you look at the F-117 as a system or maybe a philosophy, it makes no sense for it to have a companion.

Sometimes you design hardware with a belt and suspenders approach. The F-117 is all belt, no suspenders.

How close does the EF-18 get to the action?

a reply to: gariac

true, but if the windows and laser illuminator on the front was good enough im sure composite doors could be made that would reflect less then open bomb doors

originally posted by: gariac
a reply to: penroc3

But if you are doing EW, by definition you are transmitting and thus not stealthy.

there's ways around that

originally posted by: gariac
But if you are doing EW, by definition you are transmitting and thus not stealthy.

When you look at the F-117 as a system or maybe a philosophy, it makes no sense for it to have a companion.

:

I can see a use for realtime BDA and designation to keep workload down for pilots and minimize time in the target area. Also might let you keep the F-117's a little farther out from the danger domes.


The EW comment is spot on, and while there are some methods that are better than others, there is no way around radiating. Stand-in jamming is pretty dangerous which is why there's the big push to MALD-like platforms.