Perhaps the oldest christian church in Jerusalem that you don't know about

On the temple mount in Jerusalem in a car park constantly being desecrated by people throwing trash into it over the security fence lies a mysterious underground church.

Enemy's of the Christian faith claim it was for king David BUT why they do they desecrate it with there trash? and within this mysterious building were Two Alters, perhaps one for the father and the other for the son.

It may actually be the church of James.

Having watched this I am both amazed and shocked that it has gone hidden from the view's of the west.

Within the site was found a symbol upon a pottery fragment that is actually now a matter of scholarly debate, it is the symbol of the Manora the candlestick holder of the temple that is the OTHER symbol of Israel and at it's base where the base of the Manora is depicted as a triangle a fish tail also in the form of a triangle entwines making the Star of David Symbol.

This could actually be the oldest Symbol of Jewish Christianity, the Original church of James the half brother of Jesus and though not as important perhaps as other site's it is still extremely important to Christian AND Jewish history, remember these first Christian's were mostly Jewish and faced persecution from all sides for there faith.


For me this is one of the most important sites and the fact that it is being desecrated by anti christian extremists is both disgusting and very sad indeed.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Cool find ...In Act's 1 we read "Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. 13And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. 14These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. " Acts narrative doesn't seem to fit the vid as to the place ...just saying ...still a cool place though

WEll am watching over this thread to see where it leads...

Great video, I really can’t understand religious hatred,.you worship yours, I’ll worship mine, what’s the harm??

originally posted by: WUNK22
Great video, I really can’t understand religious hatred,.you worship yours, I’ll worship mine, what’s the harm??

I was thinking the same thing as I watched and saw all the trash. What do people get from that?

a reply to: LABTECH767

Wow. Now I see where Valve got their ideas for Counter Strike maps.

a reply to: LABTECH767
This is a real puzzle.
I'm not convinced that a very early Christian meeting place would have had an altar, let alone two. The idea of the "sacrifice of the Mass", demanding an altar, is a much later development. As we learn from 1 Corinthians ch11, the Lord's Supper was originally a meal. No altar is mentioned, or needed.
If it really was a Christian church, it must come from a rather later date.

It would also be a puzzle as a Jewish altar. The Second Temple, at least, was supposed to be a monopoly. All other places of worship had been banned.
One possibility is that it dates from the time of the kingdom, before the Temple priesthood were able to crack down on their rivals. Or else it could be a desperate attempt to keep something going secretly after the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70.

Anyway, I'm inclined to think that the presence of altars would rule out James. Neither his Jewish heritage nor his new Christian outlook would have prompted him to establish altars in his meeting-place.

a reply to: LABTECH767

THIS IS TOTAL FAKE "TOURIST" IGNORANCE!

That is all a lot of made up nonsense of overactive imaginations; the typical "tourist" interpretation.

The etched symbol is modern graffiti. I could see that instantly from the video. There is absolutely NO EROSION of the etching and there should be LOTS. Compare the symbol so perfectly etched and preserved in all the ruin around it where everything is so eroded. There are not two altars! That is wanton imagination and fabrication. It is NOT a Church of any kind. It would never have been tolerated in Jeruslaem to have altars of any kind. Synogogues don't have altars. It is a Pagan thing. The Hebrews only had "The Holy of Holies". The altar idea comes from the original Pagan Vatican.

en.wikipedia.org...

The bimah (Hebrew plural: bimot) in synagogues is also known as the almemar or almemor among some Ashkenazim[7] (from the Arabic, al-minbar, meaning ‘platform’[8]). The post-Biblical Hebrew bima (בּימה), 'platform' or 'pulpit', is almost certainly derived from the Ancient Greek word for a raised platform, bema (βῆμα). (A proposed link to the Biblical Hebrew bama (בּמה), 'high place' is far less likely.) Among the Sephardim, it is known as a tevah (literally 'box, case' in Hebrew)[2] or migdal-etz[9] ('tower of wood').[10] It is typically elevated by two or three steps, as was the bimah in the Temple. At the celebration of the Shavuot holiday when synagogues are decorated with flowers, many synagogues have special arches that they place over the bimah and adorn with floral displays. The importance of the bimah is to show that the reader is the most important at that moment in time, and to make it easier to hear their reader of the Torah. A raised bimah will typically have a railing. This was a religious requirement for safety in bimah more than 10 handbreadths high, or between 83 and 127 centimetres (2.72 and 4.17 ft). A lower bimah (even one step) will typically have a railing as a practical measure to prevent someone from inadvertently stepping off. The bimah became a standard fixture in synagogues from which a portion (parashah) from the Torah and the haftarah are read. In Orthodox Judaism, the bimah is located in the center of the synagogue, separate from the Ark. In other branches of Judaism, the bimah and the Ark are joined together.

This is nonsense. These are just very old Jerusalem ruins. Yes, they are important relics. The rubbish is not deliberate. Jerusalem is like that in the Arab Quarter and anywhere the Arabs frequent because they have a different attitude to trash. It DOES NOT mean they are more dirty because we know how we pollute the environment with our "hide it away" approach. Simply, they do not get offended by rubbish and garbage like we do; just part of life. Homeless people may have slept there and just the wind blowing stuff around does that. Look at Paris, London, Washington, New York: Suburban "crannies" like this full of rubbish are the norm. Jerusalem is no different. There are so many runins there it is unbelievable. I expect the people of old were much the same. Gehenna, the rubbish pit outside the gates of the Old City, was on full show and a perpetual fire burned there. That is where Christ got his metaphor from; the "Gehenna" one. He was trying to say that the Father would toss wicked souls on the garbage heap.

You guys have made up an illusion. Look how you judge the Israelis so easily. You should be ashamed. I have been to Jerusalem and walked for many miles all night around the city. I walked around it in the day time, too. It is well worth a visit. Then you would not be so easily fooled by silly Youtube vieos.

Sorry, but this is offensive to me to see such a silly ignorant tourist video making history up like this. "Yet another fine mess you got me into", ATS. Fake news, fake news everywhere, and not a truth in sight!

a reply to: Revolution9

TRUTH cut's both way's as you surely know.

What is it about this you find so scary, what does it do that you don't want to be true to the degree that you will create excuses to deny it.

And then mock it.

You know pal I have Jewish ancestry as well so do I therefore not also have a claim and I am a Christian is that a problem, how many of those Palestinian's are also of Jewish assent and does not the Lord also see there right are they not part of the house of Israel prophesied by Ezekiel and are they not also in the valley of Dry Bone's.

And your post is extremely offensive.

a reply to: LABTECH767

What is it about this you find so scary, what does it do that you don't want to be true to the degree that you will create excuses to deny it.

Have you looked into the producer of the youtube video?

David Bass (comedian) aka Daveyboyz aka Round Saturn's Eye. There are a few youtubes out there that "expose" him and his methods. This particular youtube under discussion is new. Wait a few days. If it becomes controversial enough, someone will make a debunking video.

Edit to add:

He has no blog page. If some one has an account with youtube, they may ask him where he got his "factoid" that the Romans outlawed Jewish Christianity in Jerusalem in A.D. 44, and proceeded to hunt them down. Round Saturn's Eye provides no source in the video.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: LABTECH767
This is a real puzzle.
I'm not convinced that a very early Christian meeting place would have had an altar, let alone two. The idea of the "sacrifice of the Mass", demanding an altar, is a much later development. As we learn from 1 Corinthians ch11, the Lord's Supper was originally a meal. No altar is mentioned, or needed.
If it really was a Christian church, it must come from a rather later date.

It would also be a puzzle as a Jewish altar. The Second Temple, at least, was supposed to be a monopoly. All other places of worship had been banned.
One possibility is that it dates from the time of the kingdom, before the Temple priesthood were able to crack down on their rivals. Or else it could be a desperate attempt to keep something going secretly after the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70.

Anyway, I'm inclined to think that the presence of altars would rule out James. Neither his Jewish heritage nor his new Christian outlook would have prompted him to establish altars in his meeting-place.

The vase is a 13th to 16th century AD fake according to this site) but if Paul was charged by the high priest of the temple in Jerusalem to arrest Christians, we can assume, that no official christian meeting place in Israel ever existed.

More likely to find Christain sites in neighboring countries (road to Damascus), The Assyrian Church of the East tells their St. Mari founded over 300 convents and churches by the end of the first century (St. Mari was a student of Aggai, one of the seventy apostles). So Syria be good place to look if it wasn't in a constant state of war.

Dura-Europos church in Syria was the oldest known surviving christian church building in the world before ISIS destroyed it.

Cool thread thank you!!!

originally posted by: glend
but if Paul was charged by the high priest of the temple in Jerusalem to arrest Christians, we can assume, that no official christian meeting place in Israel ever existed.

Yes, at the very most they were meeting privately in homes. Nowhere in the New Testament does it suggest any other kind of meeting-place.

a reply to: LABTECH767

They were not original altars they were places where they laid the remains of deceased Islamic family members. They did it to desecrate the site where the temple was after 600AD. They just forgot what they did in history past.

Ismael is not the inventor is Islam, Mohammad was, a fornicating, child molester, Epileptic, who claimed to have visions from an 800 wings Angel he said was Gabriel.

Gabriel of the Bible always appeared as a man and never had one wing.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Not a fan of the old child molester myself, married a Six year old Aisha and she went bald on her wedding night from the trauma, later versions of there Sura's claim she was 9 but in Yemen and many other society's child brides are justified by using him as an example, he also gave Um Kirfa's child to his uncle as a plaything - to be molested, Um Kirfa the was the "young" female chieftain of the Kuffiri tribe and widow of it's former chieftain, Muhammad's men raped her then tied her between camel's to be torn apart and Muhammad was feasting in her tent when they gave him her head as a trophy.
He was quite simply an utterly evil man but like Hitler he could twist people to his will and convinced them he was a prophet.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: LABTECH767

Ismael is not the inventor is Islam, Mohammad was, a fornicating, child molester, Epileptic, who claimed to have visions from an 800 wings Angel he said was Gabriel.

Do you understand the words that Jesus spoke in Luke 6:37 ?

""condemn not, and you will not be condemned"

Condemnation of others only stregthens our ego which is the source of our sins. So we condemn ourselves when condeming others.

Aisha may have been 14-19 years old as determined here. If true or not, forgiveness rules.

originally posted by: glend

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: LABTECH767

Ismael is not the inventor is Islam, Mohammad was, a fornicating, child molester, Epileptic, who claimed to have visions from an 800 wings Angel he said was Gabriel.

Do you understand the words that Jesus spoke in Luke 6:37 ?

""condemn not, and you will not be condemned"

Condemnation of others only stregthens our ego which is the source of our sins. So we condemn ourselves when condeming others.

Aisha may have been 14-19 years old as determined here. If true or not, forgiveness rules.

1) Do you know that there is a difference between condemnation/condemn that Judgement/judge

Compare the version you quoted, out of context, to the version that God preserved into English for us today.

Lu 6:37 ¶ Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

2) I never make a judgement without facts. All these fact about Mohammad are found all over the internet and have been proven true.

3) I have already been judged and Jesus Christ took my condemnation and the sentence on himself when he died on the cross.

4) We are not said to forgive someone who has not asked for it. Mohammad never asked me for forgiveness and he can no longer receive it because he is dead in his trespasses and sins. Nor is there any record he asked the One True Holy Almighty God (not Allah) for forgiveness.

Follow your own advice and go to alternative sites, and you will see that the 9 year old he married is already proven true. simple google will give you hundreds of of sites and differing opinions as to her age.

originally posted by: WUNK22
Great video, I really can’t understand religious hatred,.you worship yours, I’ll worship mine, what’s the harm??

When you start to think that your God is clearly telling you to smite your enemies and avenge the deaths of your ancestors killed by them thousands of years ago. Or believing that somehow their land is yours because God told you so.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Those are historical recordings and God has not given any one that mandate since he brought Israel into the land of Canaan.

God has never said anything like that to any group since then and could not be taken today. Even the commandments for Israel are not enforced in Christian church organizations today, and any of them that would try to use them are way off biblical truth would border on a cult.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Those are historical recordings and God has not given any one that mandate since he brought Israel into the land of Canaan.

Other than King David, of course.