Pilots "not well trained" for manual approaches

a reply to: F4guy

Oh man, when I was in school I swear they told us a 727 had 2.4 g's is all it wantedon the wing and that affected my view....dang

I was thinking 3.9 to send a unit out of the factory.....3.9 g's on the wings....and some paper I read back then I swear had a 2.1 G load on something....from your post up 4 slots maybe 3.3 anyway ?

a 2.1 g load and they said you'd never do more than 2.8 don't worry....I was thinking do I want to do this for a living....one time our Travelair was going 100 mph up in stormcloud and were going inverted.....I wonder how many g's that was.....getting shook more than strait line G's

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
a reply to: F4guy
Maybe you posted the wrong link? That gives me a video about climbing a rock face.

Try vimeo.com...

a reply to: F4guy


That is all true, including that more emphasis should be place on actual stick & rudder skills, but it is also true that great progress has been made in the Level D and above simulators. As an old FAA examiner pointed out to me, they are flight simulators, not landing simulators. And that was on an old Level A Lear sim.

But without having a fleet of tailwheel aircraft, how are they going to train the young aspiring airline pilots in basic stick & rudder skills? They took spins out of the syllabus many years ago.

originally posted by: F4guy
Try vimeo.com...

That link shows an aircraft test flight.

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make but I am not surprised there are alarms going off when flying a passenger aircraft inverted. I've been on some rough rides and landings in commercial aircraft, but never inverted.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: F4guy


That is all true, including that more emphasis should be place on actual stick & rudder skills, but it is also true that great progress has been made in the Level D and above simulators. As an old FAA examiner pointed out to me, they are flight simulators, not landing simulators. And that was on an old Level A Lear sim.

But without having a fleet of tailwheel aircraft, how are they going to train the young aspiring airline pilots in basic stick & rudder skills? They took spins out of the syllabus many years ago.

Even crazier is that they (the FAA) have taken full stalls and recoveries out of the Commercial pilot testing criteria.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The point is that an airliner did a full roll and a pullout from a down vertical line and the wings stayed on.

Only posting this for the non-flyers:

Scenario: Aircraft is 60+ degrees nose up and about to stall... point a wing toward the earth (90 degrees of roll) and add bottom rudder gently to get the nose to start falling toward the dirt. At no time is more than one "G" pulled for as the nose approaches the horizon roll the wings level..

True if you are in a 60 degree bank to maintain altitude you are going to have to start pulling "Gs" BUT.. you can roll into a 60+ degree descending bank and make it seem like someone is sitting in their living room watching T.V.

As long as one "G" is maintained the aircraft does not care if it is upside down or straight and level: You can poor Tea or coffee into a glass while being upside down if you know what you are doing

youtu.be...

a reply to: F4guy
Very informative post (:up.

What do you mean with not too distant past? The procedure like you describe it sounds similar to what my experience is. I´m sure now, it certainly feels way more steep than it really is. I can give you a timeframe from the 90s-2007, at least until the earlier 2000s that was the normal approach on HRG coming from Europe flying over Alexandria down parallel to the coast in the desert then turn towards the sea and "bank hard" for a longer time until finally approaching from the south towards the runway. I´m not sure if they do it anymore. It´s right where the hotels are, the region is called makadi bay, sometimes it´s a bit south over Sahl Hasheesh. Very steep right turn.

Thank you for the insight, btw here is smth I threw together in GE.

The desert route is missing but those are the approx. center points or at least that´s the region you can see. There are often problems with wild dogs on the runway. I don´t know how much military planes are stationed there now. I guess it´s more down south Marsa Alam but until the earlier 90s to 2000s you could see some fighter planes, quiet often.