DHS to Release Inert Chemical and Biological Simulant Materials at Newkirk, Oklahoma.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yes. Each release would be 600g.

But the math on that chart doesn't seem to work, or I'm missing something. I get a total of 7.2kg; 3.6kg in winter and 3.6kg in summer.


In any case, there isn't going to be enough to cause anyone any problems

Okay, so they're doing another St. Louis experiment but this time without people present or at least that's what they're telling us.

Upwind from select buildings...lol in Oklahoma there is no such thing as "upwind". The wind can blow in all directions here at the same time lol. Use to love walking to school with the wind at my back, only to get hit with gusts of dirt/wind right in my face at the same time. Great for flying a kite.

I think the Nu Joysee gubment table is sensible,

 Titanium Dioxide may be a CARCINOGEN in humans. There may be no safe level of exposure to a carcinogen, so all contact should be reduced to the lowest possible level.

The rest of the detail at the link, some other NJ info I already posted.

nj.gov...

Not enough people know enough about what they are dealing with, the lessons should have been learnt with Asbestos, it took long enough..and even then.
But you still get the, 'it's Okay...it's only very fine little particles and won't hurt you' spiel. The truth is, it is the very fine particles that were the danger in Asbestos, and the same goes for near anything that is a very fine dust entering the body, and possibly, like Asbestos, very long-term effects, that cannot be overstated.

NJ health dept is taking a sensible approach to the problem with the above linked statement...it is a caution for everybody, employers, employees and manufacturers and the like. Maybe other states do the same, they are not ramming 'legal limits' down your throat as something written in stone, or that it's safe to carry on.

a reply to: smurfy
Your source:

Where the potential exists for exposure over 2 .4 mg/m 3 for fine Titanium Dioxide , or 0.3 mg/m 3 for ultrafine Titanium Dioxide , use a NIOSH approved supplied - air respirator with a full facepiece operated in a pressure - demand or other positive - pressure mode. For increased protection use in combination with an auxiliary self - contained breathing apparatus or an emergency escape air cylinder.

Those who may be exposed at those levels (which drops off very rapidly beyond 20m, see above) will indeed be using respirators.

I would be more concerned about the titanium dioxide in our foods. I can't understand why they need to put it in food. There are natural ways to do things. If neutralized it does not even to be put on the label if used in the production of something.

Some people are better at detoxing these metals out of their bodies than others. Which are you, the one who can or the one who can't. The residue of that stuff will pepper the environment in that town for a while.

The government rarely considers long term effects of exposure in their system of determining safety. They also do not consider adjuvant or companion chemistry in the environment, testing is done only on the chemical itself to judge safety. Some common listed stuff is considered, but not stuff that is not always present. This has good and bad points, if they were to consider every toxic combination, most foods would be banned for consumption and no preservation chemistry would be allowed.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I wasn't wrong.

A pound and half of titanium dioxide released in good weather 5 miles from anywhere will pose a danger to no one. If you read the the ECHA finding you might agree. But I doubt it.

As to no reason to worry? People worry about all kinds of stuff. Some people worry about Nibiru. Do they have reason to do so?

Yeah you were wrong, claiming "oh there is nothing to worry about, then making up the claim "they are only releasing a pound and a half, and people are 5 miles away..." All of which is false. But again, you keep showing never to admit when wrong.

BTW, wth does "Nibiru" have to do with this thread?... Or is it just another of your attempts to once again deflect?...

Not to mention, those studies were just the start, how long did it take for cigarettes, asbestos, etc etc to be considered dangerous, and how many times was the category of these substances changed? But you seem to be implying that first, TiO2 is totally safe, since you tried to imply so, and second that further studies will not prove that this chemical is dangerous for human health.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yeah you were wrong, claiming "oh there is nothing to worry about, then making up the claim "they are only releasing a pound and a half, and people are 5 miles away..."

They will be releasing a pound and half at a time. You are correct, there are people closer than 5 miles.

BTW, wth does "Nibiru" have to do with this thread?..

To make the point that people worry about things that aren't worth worrying about, out of hype, fear and ignorance.

But you seem to be implying that first, TiO2 is totally safe, since you tried to imply so, and second that further studies will not prove that this chemical is dangerous for human health.

What I "implied" is that it is harmless in the concentrations which might reach anyone outside of the test area. Yeah, more testing. Always more testing. And if those tests don't show that it is dangerous, test some more. More high dose tests with mice, preferably.

A cohort of 3,607 workers employed in three DuPont titanium dioxide production facilities was followed from 1935 through 2006 (Ellis et al, 2010, 2013). The cohort included workers employed at least 6 months (183 days) on or after January 1, 1935 and prior to January 1, 2006 at any of the three DuPont TiO2 facilities. In addition, the worker had to have a job history, which resulted in exposure to TiO2 or TiCl4 based on the exposure assessment.

The results of the exposure analysis were also similar to those for the previous studies of Chen and Fayerweather (1988) and Fayerweather et al (1992), which found no association between lung cancer and TiO2 or TiCl4 regardless of whether TiO2 or TiCl4 exposure assessment was based on a time-weighted average, exposure duration or cumulative exposure index.

In conclusion, the results of this study are consistent with those of other studies of TiO2 workers. There is no indication of a positive association between occupational exposure to TiO2 or TiCl4 and death from all causes, all cancers, lung cancer, non-malignant respiratory disease or all heart disease.

www.ecetoc.org...

This was a study of humans in the real world, not mice being given extreme doses. Humans with long term exposure in an industrial environment. The very type of study which revealed the dangers of asbestos and tobacco. And it is not the only such study.

No one involved in the testing in question will have exposure close to what those 3,607 had.

The ECHA website is up. Is titanium dioxide banned in Europe?

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Phage

Titanium gasses would have a reaction similar to aluminum gasses I would think.

Just checked, not a problem as long as you are not close by.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Still better than spraying Urate, I know some people who get locked up breathing when they smell the sprayers in the field spraying urate. I guess it triggers the body to make enzymes to knock out the uric acid in the blood and if the levels quickly lower, they get side effects.

I actually researched both of these a while back, but can't remember all the particulars. I doubt if the levels will be high enough to make anyone get noticably sick though, although this is Homeland Security running this, maybe they should find some other agency.

These are not gases. TiO2 is a common white pigment and is a solid at room temperature with a low vapor pressure. The method is to disperse about 1.3 pounds of finely divided TiO2 in the air and track it's movement.

When it is contained in air as a nanoparticles, it is like a gas. Nerve gasses are liquids that are put into the air aren't they? They call that nerve gas.

It is a solid dispersed in air. The size of the particulates prohibit it from behaving like a gas. TiO2 is ubiquitous in our society. It is in white paint [at least the white paint that has pigment in it] which replaced PbCO3 except in artist's oils. It is used as a filler in many plastics such as golf ball covers. A quick search will provide a list of applications.

originally posted by: smurfy
I think the Nu Joysee gubment table is sensible,

 Titanium Dioxide may be a CARCINOGEN in humans. There may be no safe level of exposure to a carcinogen, so all contact should be reduced to the lowest possible level.

The rest of the detail at the link, some other NJ info I already posted.

nj.gov...

Not enough people know enough about what they are dealing with, the lessons should have been learnt with Asbestos, it took long enough..and even then.
But you still get the, 'it's Okay...it's only very fine little particles and won't hurt you' spiel. The truth is, it is the very fine particles that were the danger in Asbestos, and the same goes for near anything that is a very fine dust entering the body, and possibly, like Asbestos, very long-term effects, that cannot be overstated.

In the case of asbestos and asbestiform minerals, it is the shape of the particles. These minerals split lengthwise into smaller and smaller needles when they break, which is what causes the problems in the lungs.