Genesis tells how WATER behaved in the beginning of the earth we know.

I have read the first Chapter of Genesis so many times yet today I had a special insight which I would like to share. This happens constantly with the whole Bible. When they said all the books in the world could not contain this they were being very serious.

Genesis 1; 6 - 10; 6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good."

This is how I am interpreting this geologically:

The appearance of the firmament that divides the waters from the waters is all the steam cooling into the oceans and into the sky. The earth was too hot for water prior to this reaching of the right temperature. It was all H2 0 in steam. The air would not have been as we know it today. Remember the cooling would have not been just like that. It took place over may be millions of years. The earth is over 4.5 billion years old. This process could have been that slow it took even more than a billion years, even two; that is how slow.

Remember water becomes gas at a very low temperature compared to what the Universe can put out. The gas elements of Hydrogen that combined with the Oxygen have totally different properties to all the elements that fused in various ways to form the rocks of earth. On the cooler crust we know that many of these elements never mixed and maintained a separate material identity and composition. These gases in the universe swirl together, but they do not mix. The cool at very different rates. Very basic, but I hope you get an idea from this.

Obviously as the waters cooled, at a much later period to the rock, there would have been more light from the Sun reaching the surface because the volcanic activity was lessening as the earth was cooling. This allowed sunlight to break through the atmosphere and the earth to cool down to the point that the water fell to earth. However, the Sun dictates that still there must be condensation because of the temperature fluctuation between the earth and higher up in the atmosphere, obviously to this day, but rain may be temporary if the earth continues to cool (which it will).

The terrain of shifting plates made the depths and heights of the surface as deep as the deepest ocean and as high as the highest mountain; all that rock bubbling and volcanic activity. The later erosion from the weather would of course smooth out all the chip mark from the Sculptor's chisel. The water would have descended, making its way through the volcanically formed crannies to the deepest chasms, filling them up to what we have today. Through the later period there of course would be rising and falling sea levels according to certain climate changes caused by asteroids, huge volcanic sporadic eruptions (they can block out the Sun for long periods over huge areas), perhaps even rare solar activity that we have never witnessed, but that does happen.

I am being very careful to keep to the narrowly defined subject, just these verses of the Bible. I will of course be regularly writing threads like this.

Water did not come here from somewhere else. It was always here. The way it has cooled enough on earth is because of the exactitude of our position in relation to the Sun in harmony with our specific size. What is clever about the earth is that our atmosphere and proximity that made an atmosphere like ours possible stops the water from evaporating out into Space. It is essentially held in a trap because everything is just right, everything. Any slight cosmic deviation would have messed it up.

Water was already here in the swirling gasses that congregated and span into the sphere we know today.

I believe that the Genesis account goes all the way back to Sumer and beyond. The Hebrews would have known it as a very ancient song they kept in memory from the pre Abraham period in Sumer. Even in Sumer it would have been very ancient. These people did not have the distractions we have today. Their memories had to be good to remember all the handed down important cultural stuff relating to their story as a people. Look how good the Greeks were with Homer and the Egyptians with remembering their songs. They were all good at it. It was part of survival, that is how important.

I am of the opinion that the dramas (rituals), chanting and songs were the first form of Scripture as the tune and repetition helps with the remembering as a literary device. Later, the drama became play, as with Sophocles (refinement and diversification of ritual performance) and eventually prose stories and history as writing became dependable (able to produce enough copies to keep the information passing down through the generations.


(video is not me, just "borrowed" from Youtube).

a reply to: Revolution9

Are you saying that pre sumer civilization knew that much about geology?

It seems to me that they are just saying that there is land and there is water, and the land separates the water from other bodies of water. You are putting a lot of ideas in their mouths that i don’t think they understood as well as you are claiming.

a reply to: Revolution9

I love that concept. You'd probably enjoy reading Ramtha (even if you view it as fiction, it's a fun book).

In it, the world was how you described but then the Atlantis folk got so advanced, they created a beam that pierced that layer and caused the world's water to come crashing down and flood the earth.

I read it when I was in grade school so I'm sure I'm missing some key plot items but that was the gist.

The idea that the waters came before the land laid out in Genesis is interesting. Logically a land dwelling being like primitive man would have chosen his own abode of land as the being first when crafting a creation story but this is not the case in the Bible. They would be much more interested in placing the wildlife they deal with on land and the plant life they use daily than placing ocean creatures before these on their timeline.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Revolution9

Are you saying that pre sumer civilization knew that much about geology?

It seems to me that they are just saying that there is land and there is water, and the land separates the water from other bodies of water. You are putting a lot of ideas in their mouths that i don’t think they understood as well as you are claiming.

NO, I am not putting words in their mouths. I am saying that the Genesis account CLEARLY as light is saying that the water got separated into the water of the Seas and the water in the air, by being at exactly the right temperature.

The ancients understood a lot more in some ways than Wallmart dwellers like us with out stupidity.

You have missed the point entirely because of arrogance.

It takes Faith to believe in a Creator who has used Prophets and Messengers, something you have none of so you will never be able to understand what it is.

I am just saying how water got to be what it is and that Genesis describes it. No, the ancients would not have known unless Angels told them. That is the whole point.

I read the book of genesis as a guide to terraforming a planet so your theory makes a lot of sense to me. I believe they were describing with what limited vocabulary they had at the time exactly that

It was all steam and bubbling rock. When the bubbling rock cooled down enough to the temperature in the air below 100 degrees centigrade then we ALL know what water does then.

The dividing of the Water is just this. It describes a simple process that took a long long time. It is plain as day science and very obvious.

It took that Genesis passage to give me the lateral edge to work this out logically. It is so obvious.

I must say the level of intelligence has took a real dive here on ATS. It is like talking to spiteful jealous little kids. It is quite ridiculous.

No, the water did not arrive miraculously or from a #ing comet. It is every #ing where in the Universe. Is that not #ing obvious to you lot? These gases are what EVERYTHING in the material universe comes from; rocks, water, Uranium, little human brains, EVERYTHING.

It is easy to understand. It is not about how the Sumer people got to know and sing lickle songs about it. I don't have a #ing clue about that, do I, not yet at least.

originally posted by: coldlikecustard
I read the book of genesis as a guide to terraforming a planet so your theory makes a lot of sense to me. I believe they were describing with what limited vocabulary they had at the time exactly that

Thank you, at last somebody who understands.

I think this is just trying to explain to people of the time how lakes differ from the seas and how dry land full of life came to be. It was not supposed to be scientific, it is a general explanation. Notice they call our lands heaven in that, the Abyss later is referred to as hell, that is in the deeps of the sees.

The people back then desired an explanation as to how the earth was formed, they did not know what scientific concepts were. It appears that some people had a pretty good understanding of how things came to be back then and they tried to put it into laymans terms of the day. The explanation is actually is semi-accurate in concept but not really scientific in nature. I try to turn scientific research into layman's terms, it isn't easy to explain without actually making people intimidated or confusing them. You sometimes have to use scientific words, there is no common word to express what you are taking about.

It was just something to try to answer people's curiosity of how everything is the way it is. Most of Genesis is pretty good writing, and secrets to longlivity and health are included a bit.

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Revolution9

Are you saying that pre sumer civilization knew that much about geology?

It seems to me that they are just saying that there is land and there is water, and the land separates the water from other bodies of water. You are putting a lot of ideas in their mouths that i don’t think they understood as well as you are claiming.

NO, I am not putting words in their mouths. I am saying that the Genesis account CLEARLY as light is saying that the water got separated into the water of the Seas and the water in the air, by being at exactly the right temperature.

The ancients understood a lot more in some ways than Wallmart dwellers like us with out stupidity.

You have missed the point entirely because of arrogance.

It takes Faith to believe in a Creator who has used Prophets and Messengers, something you have none of so you will never be able to understand what it is.

I am just saying how water got to be what it is and that Genesis describes it. No, the ancients would not have known unless Angels told them. That is the whole point.

No, it doesn’t say that, and there are no legitimate scholars who would agree with you. You are adding information because of your arrogance. You are claiming that you know what those books are saying. That is the height of arrogance. Your faith is meaningless. Because faith is literally meaningless. You believe impossible things because your arrogance let’s you pretend you are smarter than everyone else. Meanwhile, we all see your posts every day, which prove you do not understand what words mean. You make up stuff every day and claim that your faith allows you to see it as true. You ignore that faith is meaningless in light of facts.

The Fact that you even mention Walmart dwellers Goes a long ways to show that you see yourself as above many others, which is so pathetic.

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Revolution9

Are you saying that pre sumer civilization knew that much about geology?

It seems to me that they are just saying that there is land and there is water, and the land separates the water from other bodies of water. You are putting a lot of ideas in their mouths that i don’t think they understood as well as you are claiming.

NO, I am not putting words in their mouths. I am saying that the Genesis account CLEARLY as light is saying that the water got separated into the water of the Seas and the water in the air, by being at exactly the right temperature.

The ancients understood a lot more in some ways than Wallmart dwellers like us with out stupidity.

You have missed the point entirely because of arrogance.

It takes Faith to believe in a Creator who has used Prophets and Messengers, something you have none of so you will never be able to understand what it is.

I am just saying how water got to be what it is and that Genesis describes it. No, the ancients would not have known unless Angels told them. That is the whole point.

where does it mention temperature? Words in their mouths.

Well seeing as my firm belief is that a lot of the bible is derived from the science and historical texts of ancient advanced civilizations, I can completely get behind this theory. I say theory, because none of us can prove these claims with absolute certainty. However, considering many things that the bible says that if translated with modern words could very well indicate a level of sophisticated technology was involved in a time when those writing these texts simply would not have had proper words to describe it all. Thusly, the words like miracles were used. I am sure though that those who had access to these texts in the past may have intentionally translated things with less factual wording with motives of information control in mind.

I like the conclusions you have come across specifically to the lines here in Genesis we are discussing. I feel that it just adds credibility that someone or something ancient had a very good understanding of the behavior of elements and the universe, thus suggesting an advanced civilization's record keeping/science text in regards to our origins.

Lets not forget that we are all in fact made from the dirt of the Earth, and that dirt is Carbon, the building block of basically all life on this Earth when water is added. Also from Genesis

The "creation of man from clay" is a miraculous birth theme that recurs throughout world religions and mythologies
According to Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

That statement is a recurring theme throughout time and geography. It is nothing more than the scientific statement that we are all carbon based life forms. Something or someone in the ancient world knew exactly how the elements functioned and these observations were recorded, which eventually became the Bible for the Western world. But the thing is, these same themes occur in way too many civilizations and religions throughout time completely unrelated to Abraham that, perhaps everybody got this knowledge from an original text that was translated different ways as its recorded and re-translated passages traveled through time and Earth.

Anyways, I tried to keep it within the confines of Genesis. I am not really religious myself or call myself a Christian of any sort, but I can respect and understand the possibility of the Bible, and other works from time may be passed down knowledge from our ancient space faring ancestors? Or even Earth dwellers themselves that eventually reached a period where the Earth was no longer able to sustain humanoid existence. It could be happening again.

The cycle of lost and found knowledge is quite interesting and frustrating. Some ancient cultures seem to have had access to information that modern science has "discovered" not too long ago. I believe we would be much more socially and intellectually advanced if we could just hang on to the knowledge we gain instead of forgetting it and finding it later on. I know that we are technologically superior to our predecessors, but like many others, I believe that our understanding of the physical universe isn't too far ahead of the ancient peoples , and the OP furthers my belief. It's to accurate to chalk it up to coincidence.Excellent post, Rev.

a reply to: Revolution9

Obviously as the waters cooled, at a much later period to the rock, there would have been more light from the Sun reaching the surface because the volcanic activity was lessening as the earth was cooling. This allowed sunlight to break through the atmosphere and the earth to cool down to the point that the water fell to earth. However, the Sun dictates that still there must be condensation because of the temperature fluctuation between the earth and higher up in the atmosphere, obviously to this day, but rain may be temporary if the earth continues to cool (which it will).

At this point there is no sun. The sun and all heavenly bodies are not as yet placed in the universe at this point. The canopy of water that engulfed the world did not fall to the earth till the flood of Noah. Up to the time of Noah it is strongly believed [by some] that this world was a closed environment in likeness of a greenhouse. As the waters fell to this earth and the shear weight of the waters broke or shattered the plates of the deep and created islands and continents, it also increased the weight and size of this world. This also created an open environment as well as greatly slowed the rotation of the world both around it's sun and on it's axis. A day from the fourth era, when time began, was but 7 hours compared to our 24 hours of today. You can google that in the accounts of NASA science.

I realize that you are influenced by modern geologists and that you want to believe them in that the world is over 45 billion years old but I am not certain that they understand any more than most other commoners. The earth and water could very well be over 45 billion years old according to our understanding of time but that is far from understanding any evidence that this same earth and water was formed into our world 45 billion years ago. There are variables that we have not even considered yet.

One should understand that He [the Creator] must have substance to form. Amos tells us that He forms mountains and creates wind. His own rules teach us that He must have a thing made before it is shown. "Let there be light" light was made and then shown but darkness was not made but only separated from that which He made. Light has substance but darkness has no substance. The Creator is light with substance and creates from His own substance. That which He makes He then can show or introduce if He chooses to do so.

a reply to: Revolution9

I'd suggest that you stop trying to reconcile Genesis with science. It doesn't work as there are always holes to your reasoning and the order of events are out-of-order.

How Did Water Come to Earth?