Once More With Feeling: Canada Seeking 88 new Fighters in Open Competition

Canada is once again seeking to replace the CF-18s they have. The old Hornets are in bad condition and need replacement. Originally, the F-35 had been selected by a previous Tory government. The current Liberal government promised to throw out that deal as part of their election promises. They did. Then went on to try to buy the Boeing Rhinos as an interim replacement while they ruminated on what to do for the full replacement. THAT ran afoul of Boeing picking a trade fight with a Canada company (Bombardier). Then the Canucks decided they would try to buy second hand Australian Electric Bugs. They appear to be going ahead with the Aussie Bugs, but...the Canadians are NOW stating they are ready to start an open competition for the full replacement for their aged birds.


The Canucks have stated they want the bids in by 2019. They want to select the new bird by 2022. They want to introduce the bird into service by 2025. They may be willing to spend up to $15 billion on the procurement.

In their release, they fired a shot across Boeing's bow. Canada first, eh?

news.usni.org...

www.flightglobal.com...

a reply to: anzha

The timing on that makes me laugh my ass off. It's timed around the next election. That way the current government can honestly say they didn't buy them if the F-35 wins.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Sure does, doesn't it?

Trudeau is doing some serious twister level contorting, huh?

a reply to: anzha

I'm actually really impressed at the level of twisting they are doing.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Kinda reminds me of an A-4 trying to get away from a Raptor...

Why does Canada need a military? There is no way the U.S. would ever let anything happen to them. They can just get us to pay for their defense like so many other countries.

a reply to: Metallicus

Among other things, treaty obligations.

Things like this are simply the consequences of:
AMERICA FIRST and the Trump oligarchy, plutocracy.
It´s the consequences of punitive tariff duties on imports that hit all not "U"S american nations, countries.
Many nations worldwide will follow to act like this, to turn away from the so called "U"SA!
At least till the reign of that mega-neo"liberal", warmongering Trump puppet(controlled by the generals, the so called military-industrial complex around him, that fill all important posts) and it´s military junta exploded with a loud bang!
These are just the logical consequences of logical thinking people, nations, governments etc.
If you want want everything, you maybe get nothing, that´s life!

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Wow, so Trump was responsible for them canceling the original F-35 deal two years ago. And he was responsible for Boeing completely screwing their chances at selling them Super Hornets by claiming the CSeries hurt the possible sale of aircraft Boeing doesn't even build.

Wow, that's amazing.

All very interesting, but for ease of reading can you translate some terms? Boeing Rhinos? Electric Bugs?

Why does Canada need a military? There is no way the U.S. would ever let anything happen to them. They can just get us to pay for their defense like so many other countries.

Early warning

a reply to: paraphi

Rhinos are F-18 Super Hornets. F-18A/Bs are Electric Bugs.

Maybe Canada will now consider the Typhoon instead of the F-18’s...?!?

a reply to: Silentvulcan

The Typhoon will almost certainly be offered for the actual replacement competition.

If the prices I read this week, in relation to the RAF, are to be believed. £161m for a Typhoon vs £89m for an F-35, then it's a no brainier. Unless someone is telling lies.

a reply to: waynos

Once the block buy starts, hopefully in LRIP 12, the costs will come down even more.

originally posted by: waynos
If the prices I read this week, in relation to the RAF, are to be believed. £161m for a Typhoon vs £89m for an F-35, then it's a no brainier. Unless someone is telling lies.

Posibly not lies, but you can easily manipulate numbers by quoting the relatively mature through life cost knowledge of a Typhoon to a Single F-35 airframe with no engine, helmet and spares! (not suggesting you are Waynos, just depends on who is reporting it).

Not saying it isnt true, that is the main idea of the F-35, you build so many then the price comes down, I just dont know why Canada wouldn't invest now in 5th Gen, Typhoon is very capable but I think the with the RAF the F-35B (either carrier based or off land - I would support an -A buy in future) will still be the tip of the spear in any future conflict where we are going into a soverign nation and then using its sensors as a force multiplier for the Typhoons.

a reply to: Forensick

Because the current government decided that the F-35 doesn't work, and they need a twin engine platform. So now they're doing everything they can to push the competition back to the next government so they can say "We didn't buy the F-35".

That price is slightly lower than the US cost of an F-35B, so it's about right. The US paid $122M for the B model, plus engine in LRIP 10.

a reply to: Zaphod58

They like the electric bugaboo oh so much!

defense-update.com...

And Canadians have had a problem procuring pretty much anything sea or air for some time. Even my Canadian friends have said so.

Part of our problem is that procurement seems to be a very political thing (I'm certainly no expert). Our current Liberal government, along with the majority Liberal government are very interested in trying to cover up what they now realize is a mistake in promising to cancel the F-35 during their campaign.

We've had the same problem with contracts to build new frigates because every time we have a switch in government they spend more time trying to reverse what the last one did, than they do trying to work with what's been done.