Mental Illness is a MYTH : Witchcraft and Power Politics in Medicine

I understand what you're getting at, OP.

It's an interesting thought.

Perhaps, one day, we will look at the medication of mental illness the same way we look at lobotomy today.

Maybe we're wrong and don't yet know any better.

a reply to: chr0naut

Exactly. I've been aware of my brain chemistry for a while now. I know when I am flooded with serotonin, and I do not tolerate ssri/snri meds at all. Another neurotransmitter I believe we'll be hearing a lot more of is GABA. Baclofen will be used for many things.

The brain is a continuous thing. It's not as simple as too much of one thing, not enough of something else, it's how the complete organ is.

When I was on SSRI meds, I literally felt like I was on an illicit substance minus the synergistic pleasant effects that offset the clenched jaw, wide eyes, staring at the wall for 10 minutes as you try to make coffee..

They worked on, in my opinion, the psychedelics of the 60's etc, saw how the drugs affects the brain and how people would feel uplifted for a few days after, and instead of making so that it creates an influx of chemicals, it allows it to accumulate... but think about someone who is taking a fairly mind altering substance, Every Day...

I barely tolerate mirtazapine.

As a mental health sufferer along with my daughter who is a recovering anorexic this seems like a naming exercise, its like we won't call it a mental illness but there is something wrong with you but we don't dare call it that.

Basically, no help, just blame shifting..

I have seen the utter terror and mental ordeal my daughter has gone through, the self harm, the utter hatred of ones life, the feeling of people being too close and another million and one things that suddenly hit her but most of all that she was an inch away from death tell me that there was indeed something very wrong at that time and it DID have to do with her mental state.

Sorry, but as much as I know its a cushy job and many folks fake illness for their own reasons I do know that both myself and her were almost destroyed by this thing.

This is shades of Tom Cruise and "there's no such thing as depression"...Which makes me laugh because if the people who taught Tom that depression isn't real revealed all his secrets that he was made to confess as part of his 'education' then I think Tom would be pretty depressed by the end of it all.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I read your OP thoroughly, and you 'could' have some valid points worth discussing.
But your ignorance ruined any chance of intelligent discussion from me.
👎

originally posted by: badw0lf
a reply to: chr0naut

Exactly. I've been aware of my brain chemistry for a while now. I know when I am flooded with serotonin, and I do not tolerate ssri/snri meds at all. Another neurotransmitter I believe we'll be hearing a lot more of is GABA. Baclofen will be used for many things.

The brain is a continuous thing. It's not as simple as too much of one thing, not enough of something else, it's how the complete organ is.

When I was on SSRI meds, I literally felt like I was on an illicit substance minus the synergistic pleasant effects that offset the clenched jaw, wide eyes, staring at the wall for 10 minutes as you try to make coffee..

They worked on, in my opinion, the psychedelics of the 60's etc, saw how the drugs affects the brain and how people would feel uplifted for a few days after, and instead of making so that it creates an influx of chemicals, it allows it to accumulate... but think about someone who is taking a fairly mind altering substance, Every Day...

I barely tolerate mirtazapine.

Cheers, I believe I know how you feel.



I find that Mindfulness practice and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy have been effective in allowing me to gain control over my situation.

I wish that general practitioners would receive better training in regard to the effectiveness of these methods and the potential issues that arise from throwing drugs at anything vaguely like depression (The drugs often do work, but I wonder at the cost to those who don't have the same issue as others or a different response to the drugs).

Sadly, I believe that general practice has become a business where doctors try to 'turn around' patients in 10 to 15 minutes or otherwise they are considered inefficient, and only specialists are allowed to 'delve deeper' into diagnosis.

I am usually a normal person. Sometimes random things make me flip out and treat the people I love terribly and hurt them permanently. I have no control it's as if I am possessed. I also do many other things you'd consider not normal that I don't feel comfortable sharing.

I have devoted considerate efffort to control the compulsions but can't. Then they make me break down and want to not exist. Other days I'm in a mania happy talking 10 miles a minute.

Walk a day in my shoes, sir, and you might be singngba different tune.



How DARE you try to downplay the struggles I go through each and every day. How insensitive and ignorant.

a reply to: Realtruth

The human experience is subjective, but human behavior tends to follow patterns. We use these patterns to describe things. Unfortunately, the science of the mind is a very subjective field. We can't nail down and truly quantify anything when most of the data is collected from anecdotes. But the more we do it, the better we get at it. Just like anything else.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: muzzleflash
Suggested reading materials from a few psychiatrists and psychoanalysts:

Thomas Szasz :
The Myth of Mental Illness (1961)
The Manufacture of Madness (1970)

Except for a few identifiable brain diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, there are "neither biological or chemical tests nor biopsy or necropsy findings for verifying or falsifying DSM diagnoses", i.e., there are no objective methods for detecting the presence or absence of mental illness.[5]

His views on special treatment followed from libertarian roots, based on the principles that each person has the right to bodily and mental self-ownership and the right to be free from violence from others

R. D. Laing:
The Divided Self - An Existential Study in Sanity and Madness (1960)
Self and Others (1961)
The Politics of Experience and The Bird of Paradise (1967)

Laing's views on the causes and treatment of serious mental dysfunction, greatly influenced by existential philosophy, ran counter to the psychiatric orthodoxy of the day by taking the expressed feelings of the individual patient or client as valid descriptions of lived experience rather than simply as symptoms of some separate or underlying disorder.

And a Youtube vid to get you started on all the videos you can find out there:

Are you serious with this tripe? All your sources are 40 years old or more. Who listens to ANY science that is 40 years old?

The age of a truth has no bearing on it's validity.
Nuclear reactors were devised way more than 40 years ago and are still viable.

Yes, but nuclear reactors built TODAY are much more stable and trustworthy than nuclear reactors built 40 years ago, because we know more about how they work.

You need to actually address my argument directly rather than attack it because it's "old". Truth is timeless.

I did address it. Your information is out-of-date.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Spoken like someone who has never experienced a mental condition outside of depression.

I'm on board with there being an epidemic of prescribing medication to cover symptoms, instead of curing the problem. Part of that is big pharm is big business. Part of it is laziness and poor training. I dealt with that personally with a couple of ruptured discs, and it took 15 years for a doctor to finally prescribe the right medication that almost literally overnight, helped tremendously, reducing inflammation. Usually doctors would prescribe muscle relaxants.. which I would avoid (hate taking meds), and they didn't fix the problem.

But.. you are quite wrong that there are no issues with the brain. The brain and your body work with chemicals released continually, which control your emotions and states of body, -constantly- and often almost instantly. Suggesting that those chemicals can't be off is ludicrous.

You don't have Attention Deficit Disorder - there's no such thing.

You're just impatient and need to exercise better self control and learn how to focus more effectively.

If you had ADHD, you'd think otherwise. You are dead-wrong about this - which puts your entire premise on shaky ground. Your arrogance is palpable in your post.

originally posted by: FinallyAwake
a reply to: muzzleflash

I read your OP thoroughly, and you 'could' have some valid points worth discussing.
But your ignorance ruined any chance of intelligent discussion from me.
👎

That seems to be the main claim disputing the claims of the OP.

That the author is "ignorant", which seems rather ambiguous because everyone is ignorant of a lot of things.

But indulge me, what exactly am I ignorant of?

In my view I was dispelling an ideology / mythology. What information specifically do I lack?

I understand my OP hurt some feelings, but as they say, the truth hurts. That reaction is subjective in nature so not exactly curing me or anyone of their ignorance either...

a reply to: fleabit

I didn't argue there were no issues with the brain.

I explained that brain damage or deformities, etc, were physical in nature.

This debate is about the "mind" which is an abstract concept, and "behavior" which is viewed subjectively.

I agreed early in my OP that there exists physical quantifiable objective medical issues, but that "mental illness" is a misdiagnosis and steeped in mythology and perpetuating prejudices and stereotyping.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Spoken like someone who has never experienced a mental condition outside of depression.

Address the claims rather than attacking the messenger.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Out of date is insufficient and lazy.

How is it out of date? What elements of it have changed and why?

a reply to: muzzleflash

Address what claims? The claims made by you? You aren't the messenger, you literally made your entire post off based on made up crap. So again, spoken like someone who has zero experience with mental conditions.

Here is where I see this stemming from. You have been told you have mental issues right here on ATS. Are you lashing out at those who have said such? Just because you don't want to believe in mental issues (projection?) doesn't mean they don't exist. The burden isn't on me to refute your nonsense. You made the wild claim, you need to "eviscerate" the thousands upon thousands of scientifically peer reviewed papers that disagree with your worthless point of view.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Realtruth

The human experience is subjective, but human behavior tends to follow patterns. We use these patterns to describe things. Unfortunately, the science of the mind is a very subjective field. We can't nail down and truly quantify anything when most of the data is collected from anecdotes. But the more we do it, the better we get at it. Just like anything else.

I agree completely.

The more you tell yourself myths the more you'll accept them without questioning.

And the more you try to nail something down on thin air and attempting to quantify an unquantifiable substance, the better you get at it.

It's like trying to count every star by hand without estimating, good luck with that.

So I will try this again.

The OP has now demonstrated several times that he is unwilling to admit to being wrong in his assertions that mental illness is a myth. As I have already stated I believe that such claims could be potentially dangerous to a venerable individual who is susceptible to such suggestions through mental illness.

As such I believe it is best that all members just let this thread die, let it fall down to the bottom of the recent posts page and stay there.

The OP might take this as a victory as he has already stated that its not about being correct its about winning, well he take this as a win but its a bit like a guy getting his ass kicked in a fight and claiming a victory because the other guy broke a nail or something.

Honestly the absurdity of this whole thing is astounding, the OP will not listen to reason and just claims other members are attacking him every time someone tries to explain to him that mental illness is real so really what is the point in any of us continuing the discussion?

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Out of date is insufficient and lazy.

Not when it is 40 years ago and research has continued quite extensively since then. What, exactly, invalidates all the research into the mind between the 1970's and now that makes that old information MORE credible than today's information?

How is it out of date? What elements of it have changed and why?

All science that is near a half century old is out-of-date. If you want to know all the information that has changed since then, then you should look up the different iterations of the DSM

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
Back in the 1970's, the DSM was only on version 2. That was three versions (and tons of reprints) ago.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: muzzleflash

Address what claims? The claims made by you? You aren't the messenger, you literally made your entire post off based on made up crap. So again, spoken like someone who has zero experience with mental conditions.

Here is where I see this stemming from. You have been told you have mental issues right here on ATS. Are you lashing out at those who have said such? Just because you don't want to believe in mental issues (projection?) doesn't mean they don't exist. The burden isn't on me to refute your nonsense. You made the wild claim, you need to "eviscerate" the thousands upon thousands of scientifically peer reviewed papers that disagree with your worthless point of view.

Which peer reviewed scientific papers prove what? Any examples?

My post made claims, which should be refuted properly or agreed to. I am definitely the messenger because I wrote the OP.

They are based on refuting the "made up crap" founding the mythology of "mental illnesses" and psychiatry.

And to your ad hominem attack ::

I have had 3 exams by professionals, including two panals of a dozen qualified experts each from MTMHI and Vanderbilt (in the last 2.5 years), composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, etc. So called "experts".

All of these very in depth exams concluded I have no diagnosable "mental illnesses".

People on ATS can call me any name they want but the actual professional licensed practitioners have spoken - not one single diagnosis of anything.

Do I need more panals of experts? Should I keep going and say "but a few guys on ATS says I'm crazy! Clearly your failure to identify a disease is flawed!"

Cmon, lol this is silly.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here I'll blow your mind -

Not only is homosexuality not a mental illness - but there is no such thing as homosexuality.

There is just "sexuality".

Putting labels on people and convincing them to identify with those labels is irrational and essentially politics mixed with social engineering.

Homosexuality doesn't even exist as a mental condition.