Flynn charged with one count of making false statement

a reply to: olaru12

I just have to laugh at all these "trump panic" comments. They're laughable. That's all I have to say about that.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Flynn took the deal to protect his son. Yes.
He did lie ...yes
He also failed to report income and didn't register as a foreign agent etcetera etc...
There was a lot more he could have been charged with.
The mistake you guys keep making is underestimating Robert Mueller history in prosecuting. How he works his way from Guido to Don Corleone by going thru Tony and Vinny, and Salvatore, and Tommy .

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: olaru12

I just have to laugh at all these "trump panic" comments. They're laughable. That's all I have to say about that.

As with the manafort indictment, this Flynn thing will go away also.

Normality will return, with Trump doing great things for this nation and Hillary, Lynch, Obama back in the crosshairs of multiple investigative committee's once again.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: ketsuko

Thank you for that information. It looks like the USA has a long history of interacting with Russia.

Interaction is one thing, colluding with Russia, to influence American elections is Treason.

That's what we're looking at. Deal with it!!

We're actually not looking at that. So far there's no charges related to collusion. When this bubble bursts, please do not harm yourself. There are other means of dealing with disappointment.

I'm a patient man. All the other indictments and testimony to Mueller will go on for months; who else do you think will flip? Jared is scared sh1tless... Word on the Hill is that Trump isn't dealing with the stress very well and devastated that flynn "turned on him"....

and all this but, but, Obama and but but Hillary isn't working as deflection. In fact just making Trump appear more guilty. Might want to take another course of action deflection wise....memo, Obama's gone and Hillary lost.

I would call it hopeful more than patient. Patient implies you have a pretty good idea results are coming. You don't, it's just wishful thinking.

Word on the hill was that Tillerson was about to get fired too. They were wrong, for what is that now the 3rd time? Every little negative tidbit about this administration gets reported, no matter who the source is or whether it can be corroborated. Many of the journalists are a lot like you, they just want it to be true. They're not concerned with whether it's supported by evidence. Keep telling yourself Trump is running scared. That's pathetic Trump has you so wound up you have to make # like that up to help you get through the day. I feel sorry for you.

a reply to: introvert

yes repeating some thing over and over can topple most things. how many african americans believe trump is a white power nut job because democrats said he was 20 percent 30 percent actually much higher. have you heard trump doing away with child support? is it true no but it going through my community like wildfire.

originally posted by: Sillyolme

Flynn took the deal to protect his son. Yes.

You raise an interesting issue (although I am not interested in any of your thoughts on it, fyi).

If Flynn has agreed to give any testimony or confess guilt to anything with an agreement his son will be protected from prosecution, then that is not going to have much evidentiary weight and would likely be suppressed as evidence against Trump/Kushner/Someone Else.

It's coercion.

***

ETA: And it's one of several very questionable and possibly critical errors I've noticed about Mueller's collection of evidence.

Anyone recall this oldie but goodie?


Flyn n's calls show no evidence of wrongdoing.

Depending on the content of the conversations, Flynn could have violated a law called the Logan Act, which bars a private individual from conducting foreign policy without the permission of the U.S. government. For instance, if Flynn told the ambassador the Trump administration would drop the sanctions, that would have been illegal.

The intelligence official who has personally seen the transcripts told Mary Louise they contained "no evidence" of criminal wrongdoing, although the official said it can't be definitively ruled out.

The official also said there was "absolutely nothing" in the transcripts that suggests Flynn was acting under instructions "or that the trail leads higher."

Remember, the transcripts of Flynn's calls to the Russian ambassador are out there, and they show no evidence of wrongdoing. The FBI knows what he said and what the Russian ambassador said. If there was a quid pro quo in there, they would know and as Andre McCarthy explains, if there was that level of conspiracy going on, they'd have gotten him to plea to that instead of false statement. McCarthy, btw, is a former federal prosecutor and knows how the game is played.

**EDIT**

Nevertheless, as I explained in connection with George Papadopoulos (who also pled guilty in Mueller’s investigation for lying to the FBI), when a prosecutor has a cooperator who was an accomplice in a major criminal scheme, the cooperator is made to plead guilty to the scheme. This is critical because it proves the existence of the scheme. In his guilty-plea allocution (the part of a plea proceeding in which the defendant admits what he did that makes him guilty), the accomplice explains the scheme and the actions taken by himself and his co-conspirators to carry it out. This goes a long way toward proving the case against all of the subjects of the investigation.

/**EDIT**

So right now, all that can be said is that he made false statements, and they are using him on that to try to fry bigger fish.

We still don't know which ones.

a reply to: ketsuko

a reply to: ketsuko

Know what I embrace? Not stereotyping everyone. Hey... I'm Karen...
human Individual . Nice to meetcha.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Xcathdra

So at this point, the question becomes what he's testifying to. We all know thanks to the press that he's testifying that he was asked to talk to Russia about an upcoming UN vote, but we also know that took place after the election and involved him talking also to other world leaders, not just Russia.

So what else is he testifying about and what piece of the puzzle does that fill?

Who or what is the actual case?

It may not actually be what people think.

That just it.. Nothing he did was illegal except for lying to the FBI. The only other thing I can think of is his time acting as a foreign agent representing Russian / Turkeys interests.

There are a couple possibilities -
* - The lying to the FBI is the standalone charge and broke no other laws except for that one.
* - Trying to protect his son.
* - Providing evidence against others, possibly the Podestas / Manafort etc since he was in that same area as they were.

I am leaning towards the last option in that he will provide evidence against others for failing to register as foreign agents in addition to possible bribery / blackmail evidence.

originally posted by: Olivine
a reply to: ketsuko

Obama fired Flynn, and advised Trump not to hire him. NBC May 18, 2017

Flynn campaigned with Trump, was on the transition team, and worked in the Trump administration for 21 months. He knows plenty about the inner shenanigans before the election.

from your story:

According to all three former officials, Obama warned Trump against hiring Flynn. The Obama administration fired Flynn in 2014 from his position as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, largely because of mismanagement and temperament issues.

Yet there's no proof anywhere that Obama fired Flynn is there.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Xcathdra

Flynn took the deal to protect his son. Yes.
He did lie ...yes
He also failed to report income and didn't register as a foreign agent etcetera etc...
There was a lot more he could have been charged with.
The mistake you guys keep making is underestimating Robert Mueller history in prosecuting. How he works his way from Guido to Don Corleone by going thru Tony and Vinny, and Salvatore, and Tommy .

Sure however we come back to that pesky reality of none of it had anything to do with Trump or Russia collusion.

However it does bring us back around to not registering under FARA and for engaging in the same activities as the Podesta's. His plea deal might be for evidence against those individuals or even against people in the Obama administration as he did work for that administration for some time.

Or it is simply the only law he broke (lying to the FBI) and is not facing any other charges and has no other connections to Mueller's fishing expedition.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Sillyolme

You missed the 12 pages of the typical Trumpeters deflecting, misdirecting, Hillarying, fake news-ing, and Obama'ing. I even think there was some muslim brotherhood BS in there somewhere.

I saw the movie. Lol
Seriously though outside the court house was a small crowd nothing crazy and I hear this voice and just see a sign held up but couldn't see the person and they say "Lock him up lock him up." I turned to my husband and said, that's Hillary...

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: introvert

yes repeating some thing over and over can topple most things. how many african americans believe trump is a white power nut job because democrats said he was 20 percent 30 percent actually much higher. have you heard trump doing away with child support? is it true no but it going through my community like wildfire.

Well, it also brought down the Wiemar Republic and gave power to the Nazi's.

and the Soviet Union...

a reply to: face23785

Keep telling yourself Trump is running scared. That's pathetic Trump has you so wound up you have to make # like that up to help you get through the day. I feel sorry for you.

I admit I am totally absorbed by the Trump saga, almost an obsession with the twist, turns, lies and very interesting personalities involved...Almost Shakespearean or should I say "twittertarian" lol

But don't feel Sorry for me...I'm having a great time and staying busy writing ...."Trump" the musical! No matter how the cluster **** turns out I have been entertained. American politics; best show in town....My log line!



I hope I can get Ivanka and Melania to play themselves in the production....Iv'e even written a little part for Barron!!

A total "Comedy of Errors" or it could be a tragedy, depending on your political affiliations.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Sillyolme

Flynn took the deal to protect his son. Yes.

You raise an interesting issue (although I am not interested in any of your thoughts on it, fyi).

If Flynn has agreed to give any testimony or confess guilt to anything with an agreement his son will be protected from prosecution, then that is not going to have much evidentiary weight and would likely be suppressed as evidence against Trump/Kushner/Someone Else.

It's coercion.

***

ETA: And it's one of several very questionable and possibly critical errors I've noticed about Mueller's collection of evidence.

Coercion is precisely how EVERY cooperating witness becomes a cooperating witness.

There is nothing legally illegitimate about coercing a witness into testifying.

Coercing someone to commit a crime is a real thing though.

Coercing someone to cooperate in an investigation happens every day and in every way.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

In the legal realm coercion requires an unlawful act in order to force an outcome by a different party.

In plea deal cases they are simply telling the suspect this is what we have, this is what we can charge you with and if you have info in these areas we will reduce / eliminate some of the charges for that information.

A completely lawful act.

An example of coercion would be a law enforcement officer telling a person they are going to have their child removed from their custody unless they provide certain information regarding a 3rd party.

That would be illegal.

originally posted by: ketsuko
So right now, all that can be said is that he made false statements, and they are using him on that to try to fry bigger fish.

We still don't know which ones.

It is also entirely possible Flynn broke no laws except lying to the FBI and has no bigger fish to fry. In that case your resolve that issue with the charge and remove him from the list in your investigations.

Something people should consider until this stuff moves forward again and more info comes out.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: ketsuko
So right now, all that can be said is that he made false statements, and they are using him on that to try to fry bigger fish.

We still don't know which ones.

It is also entirely possible Flynn broke no laws except lying to the FBI and has no bigger fish to fry.

Considering he has publicly, retro-actively, registered as a foreign agent of Turkey, admitting guilt and that he was working for Turkey and the President Elect (and President? - have to check dates) simultaeneously?

The same thing Manafort was also charged with, but not Flynn?

Considering he outlined what he had to trade in Proffer before Mueller agreed to the lessor of charges?

Seeing as the limited docs that were made public showed that he kept several campaign officials apprised and one "High Ranking" transition member apprised of what he talked to the Russians about?

No. It is not "possible Flynn broke no laws except lying to the FBI and has no bigger fish to fry."

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Sillyolme

Flynn took the deal to protect his son. Yes.

You raise an interesting issue (although I am not interested in any of your thoughts on it, fyi).

If Flynn has agreed to give any testimony or confess guilt to anything with an agreement his son will be protected from prosecution, then that is not going to have much evidentiary weight and would likely be suppressed as evidence against Trump/Kushner/Someone Else.

It's coercion.

***

ETA: And it's one of several very questionable and possibly critical errors I've noticed about Mueller's collection of evidence.

Coercion is precisely how EVERY cooperating witness becomes a cooperating witness.

There is nothing legally illegitimate about coercing a witness into testifying.

Coercing someone to commit a crime is a real thing though.

Coercing someone to cooperate in an investigation happens every day and in every way.

Witness credibility is key to the evidentiary value of their testimony. Witness testimony that has been coerced with the promise that their child will be spared prosecution is worthless.

***

ETA: Imagine you are on a jury and hear testimony from a witness against a Defendant. The Defense tells you that in exchange for that testimony, prosecutors agreed not to charge the witness' child.