Daniel;- The unsolved puzzle of the Seventy Weeks

a reply to: the2ofusr1

To start with Matthew 24-15. This verse is the answer to the question asked in 24-3. What is the sign of the end of the world?

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Clearly a prediction that there would be a temple at the end of the world and it would be desecrated by some detestable thing.

Also this refers back to Daniel 11-30 and 31.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

And if you combine Matthew 24-15 with Daniel 11-6 you get this.

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

The end of years. That would be Daniel's 70th week. Daniel 11 is a detailed description of Daniel's vision of the end of the world.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Theory disproved. The 70th week could not have happened in the first century AD. Daniel 9-24 says the following.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

If there is a 2000 year curse in the book of Hosea then the 70th week of Daniel would have to be a future event. No way the conditions laid out in verse 24 there were satisfied in the first century AD.

Your graph is wishful thinking.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
So you take the seventy weeks to be the period from Nehemiah to Jesus, and renounce the popular belief that the last "week" has anything to do with the end-times. Fair enough.
Two questions.
How are 455 B.C. and 406 B.C. calculated? They are not dates known to standard history.
What is supposed to be the significance of A.D.36? How does the"week" come to an end decisively at that point?

P.S. On closer inspection of the text, the anointed one is being cut off "at the end of the 62 weeks". That is, apparently, before the last week starts. Your schema seems to be fudging the issue on that point, by confusing the "cutting off" with the "ending of the sacrifice", which does come in the middle.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I think Zechariah and Revelation are clear on that point. The Lord has 2 personal assistants. The branches. And it shows them as two separate beings. Though what they are is a good question. Are they Archangels? A lower version of god or elohim perhaps? Ascended humans? It really doesn't say. But they do seem to be in the number 2 position in the pecking order of heaven.

They also make appearances in Daniel 12 and Genesis 18 too BTW.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: DISRAELI

Puzzle solved

and this "70 Week Drama" will be replayed in the Heavens/our Zodiac...all the way until the time when the Earth is removed from the Solar System (a new Heaven & Earth)

The 'Key' is to recognize the '70 Week Drama' unfolding above our heads in the Sun-Moon-Stars-constellations even as the cryptic Revelation 12 prophecy string of Events was recently recognized in the Constellation Virgo

that '70 week Drama' must be seen & accounted for on three (3) different scales of time...
70 weeks of 7 days = 490 days or 1.34 years
70 weeks of Years = 490 calendar Solar or Lunar Years
70 weeks ~ unknown time cycle or scale-of-time

therein is the Way that the Deity keeps the Word 'Sealed' until the 'End Times'

the Veil is still over our eyes, be it the Olive Trees identities or the actual Prophetic Time Line of '70 weeks'
(a '70 weeks' period of time(s) which is Absent the Jubilee Years...)

a reply to: ntech
Quite so. And therefore they are shown as coming together and working together.
I was querying the assumption that they would arrive separately, with a long interval between them

a reply to: DISRAELI

What is supposed to be the significance of A.D.36? How does the"week" come to an end decisively at that point?

What happened that had significance in 36AD was Acts Chapter 10, read it and you will understand.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
So I must ask, as I did for the other two dates, how the true date of Acts ch10 is supposed to be known.

a reply to: DISRAELI

That's a very valid question.

The book of Acts covers a period of about 28 years, from Jesus’ ascension in 33 C.E. to the apostle Paul’s imprisonment in Rome about 61 C.E, so logically chapter 10 happens quite early in that whole thing.
The other point is as I have always said the weeks of years doesn't suddenly change in duration right at the very end of the prophesy. it's consistent all the way through. It doesn't suddenly jump 1000's of years in the shortest phase of the prophesy.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
it is a little dubious to fix an historical date arbitrarily, in accordance with a calculation based on prophecy, in order to make the prophecy match the history. It then becomes a circular argument. I've pointed out that they did the same thing with the two dates at the beginning of the sequence.
I once met a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses who insisted on moving the dates of the fall of Jerusalem and the fall of Babylon so that there would be exactly seventy years between them. As a student of history, I thought that was sharp practice as well. In that instance, they were making the mistake of taking the seventy years literally instead of symbolically. Perhaps it is also a mistake to take the numbers of the "seventy weeks" literally.

There remains the other anomaly I pointed out. Daniel seems to place the fall of the anointed one at the beginning of the last week and cutting off the sacrifice in the middle of the week. Your schema conflates the two events, which should be happening at different times, thus shifting the "anointed one" to the middle of the week. As I observed in the OP, that was the flaw in the Preterist interpretation I discovered. Presumably the motive is the same- to avoid the idea that the week refers to an end-times ruler.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Well you could even say 2017 is significant as what Trump just said is "The word to restore Jerusalem", if you wanted too, and that everything going forwards is only 70 weeks left. See I don't believe that, but I am just illustrating how easy it is to maneuver things around a certain ideology.

Your point with JW's with the fall of Jerusalem/Babylon is interesting forcing me to do extra research, and this is very interesting.


VAT 4956. The opening line of this tablet reads: “Year 37 of Nebukadnezar, king of Babylon.” Thereafter, it contains detailed descriptions of the position of the moon and planets in relation to different stars and constellations. Also included is one lunar eclipse. Scholars say that all these positions occurred in 568/567 B.C.E., which would make the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar II, when he destroyed Jerusalem, 587 B.C.E. But do these astronomical references irrefutably point only to the year 568/567 B.C.E.?

The tablet mentions a lunar eclipse that was calculated as occurring on the 15th day of the third Babylonian month, Simanu. It is a fact that a lunar eclipse occurred on July 4 (Julian calendar) of this month during 568 B.C.E. However, there was also an eclipse 20 years earlier, on July 15, 588 B.C.E.17

If 588 B.C.E. marked the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar II, then his 18th year would be 607 B.C.E.—the very year indicated by the Bible’s chronology for the destruction of Jerusalem! But does VAT 4956 provide further corroborating evidence for the year 607 B.C.E.?

In addition to the aforementioned eclipse, there are 13 sets of lunar observations on the tablet and 15 planetary observations. These describe the position of the moon or planets in relation to certain stars or constellations. There are also eight time intervals between the risings and settings of the sun and the moon.

Because of the superior reliability of the lunar positions, researchers have carefully analyzed these 13 sets of lunar positions on VAT 4956. They analyzed the data with the aid of a computer program capable of showing the location of celestial bodies on a certain date in the past. What did their analysis reveal? While not all of these sets of lunar positions match the year 568/567 B.C.E., all 13 sets match calculated positions for 20 years earlier, for the year 588/587 B.C.E.

Much of the astronomical data in VAT 4956 fits the year 588 B.C.E. as the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar II. This, therefore, might support the date of 607 B.C.E. for Jerusalem’s destruction. There is always a secondary plausible reason in play.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
All I can say is that secular historians have found no reason to dispute the date, and I don't believe that they have, as a class, any particular anti-religious agenda.