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originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I think in the end it will be not one but a whole fanfare of swans to choose from.
The financial situation we find ourselves in is completely untenable. Our entire economy at this point is nothing more than a giant Ponzi scheme. We have flooded the global market with so much cash trying to keep our economy alive that at some point, when the debt is called in, not just ours but many governments are going to find themselves in hot water. You simply can not solve a credit crisis with more credit. it only delays the inevitable and actually makes it worse.
Right now we are stuck in some kind of Wile E. Coyote moment where we have stepped off the cliff and are just waiting for gravity to notice. Our government keeps printing more cash and piling it up beneath us seemingly without realizing that its the weight of that cash that is going to cause the collapse. To make things even worse, our government shoved billions of dollars at large corporations so the corporations could start R&D and production and put people to work, in turn stimulating the economy. Instead of doing that the corporations just stockpiled the cash. Now the corporations have enormous cash reserves with little to no tangible value attached to it. The perfect storm is brewing.
The moment of insolvency will be when the debt is called in. It is impossible to pay. Not difficult, impossible. Its just a matter of time until we find ourselves in a Wiemar, Germany situation. We will go to bed one night with $10,000 dollars in the bank and wake up with $1,000 Patriot dollars or America bucks or whatever they will be called. It is the only way to avoid the 'wheelbarrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread' scenario.
In the 1930's only one in four Americans lived in a family where someone had a job. From the high of 1929 to the mid thirties the stock market lost 90% of its value. All of the markers that were present in 1929 are here now, only worse. The average American today knows something is wrong but can't do anything about it. There will be many factors involved in the end and a buffet of choices as to which was the final straw that broke the camel's back. But that will be an academic argument because the real issue will be a huge segment of the population not knowing where its next meal is coming from.
National debt isn't anything like personal debt. It can't 'called in' and there is no risk of an involuntary default for the US or other countries that issue debt in their own currency.
The situation is slightly different in the Eurozone. The debt still can't be called in as it's fixed term but there is a possibility of countries defaulting (mainly due to the stupid set up of the ECB).
Any debt can be called on to collect. And inability to pay results in default. The danger is enormous. Its as simple as our creditors refusing to accept US currency due to its devalued state. The dollar would collapse. The only thing keeping it afloat now is the continued belief that it will somehow maintain its value. A task growing more difficult and unlikely with each passing day.
Explain how the US debt can be called in and collected.
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I think in the end it will be not one but a whole fanfare of swans to choose from.
The financial situation we find ourselves in is completely untenable. Our entire economy at this point is nothing more than a giant Ponzi scheme. We have flooded the global market with so much cash trying to keep our economy alive that at some point, when the debt is called in, not just ours but many governments are going to find themselves in hot water. You simply can not solve a credit crisis with more credit. it only delays the inevitable and actually makes it worse.
Right now we are stuck in some kind of Wile E. Coyote moment where we have stepped off the cliff and are just waiting for gravity to notice. Our government keeps printing more cash and piling it up beneath us seemingly without realizing that its the weight of that cash that is going to cause the collapse. To make things even worse, our government shoved billions of dollars at large corporations so the corporations could start R&D and production and put people to work, in turn stimulating the economy. Instead of doing that the corporations just stockpiled the cash. Now the corporations have enormous cash reserves with little to no tangible value attached to it. The perfect storm is brewing.
The moment of insolvency will be when the debt is called in. It is impossible to pay. Not difficult, impossible. Its just a matter of time until we find ourselves in a Wiemar, Germany situation. We will go to bed one night with $10,000 dollars in the bank and wake up with $1,000 Patriot dollars or America bucks or whatever they will be called. It is the only way to avoid the 'wheelbarrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread' scenario.
In the 1930's only one in four Americans lived in a family where someone had a job. From the high of 1929 to the mid thirties the stock market lost 90% of its value. All of the markers that were present in 1929 are here now, only worse. The average American today knows something is wrong but can't do anything about it. There will be many factors involved in the end and a buffet of choices as to which was the final straw that broke the camel's back. But that will be an academic argument because the real issue will be a huge segment of the population not knowing where its next meal is coming from.
National debt isn't anything like personal debt. It can't 'called in' and there is no risk of an involuntary default for the US or other countries that issue debt in their own currency.
The situation is slightly different in the Eurozone. The debt still can't be called in as it's fixed term but there is a possibility of countries defaulting (mainly due to the stupid set up of the ECB).
Any debt can be called on to collect. And inability to pay results in default. The danger is enormous. Its as simple as our creditors refusing to accept US currency due to its devalued state. The dollar would collapse. The only thing keeping it afloat now is the continued belief that it will somehow maintain its value. A task growing more difficult and unlikely with each passing day.
Explain how the US debt can be called in and collected.
The means and methods of default are too numerous to list. However, a debt is a debt and they all have to get paid. This answer at Quora said it well I think.
link
And this from BBC News.
link
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I think in the end it will be not one but a whole fanfare of swans to choose from.
The financial situation we find ourselves in is completely untenable. Our entire economy at this point is nothing more than a giant Ponzi scheme. We have flooded the global market with so much cash trying to keep our economy alive that at some point, when the debt is called in, not just ours but many governments are going to find themselves in hot water. You simply can not solve a credit crisis with more credit. it only delays the inevitable and actually makes it worse.
Right now we are stuck in some kind of Wile E. Coyote moment where we have stepped off the cliff and are just waiting for gravity to notice. Our government keeps printing more cash and piling it up beneath us seemingly without realizing that its the weight of that cash that is going to cause the collapse. To make things even worse, our government shoved billions of dollars at large corporations so the corporations could start R&D and production and put people to work, in turn stimulating the economy. Instead of doing that the corporations just stockpiled the cash. Now the corporations have enormous cash reserves with little to no tangible value attached to it. The perfect storm is brewing.
The moment of insolvency will be when the debt is called in. It is impossible to pay. Not difficult, impossible. Its just a matter of time until we find ourselves in a Wiemar, Germany situation. We will go to bed one night with $10,000 dollars in the bank and wake up with $1,000 Patriot dollars or America bucks or whatever they will be called. It is the only way to avoid the 'wheelbarrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread' scenario.
In the 1930's only one in four Americans lived in a family where someone had a job. From the high of 1929 to the mid thirties the stock market lost 90% of its value. All of the markers that were present in 1929 are here now, only worse. The average American today knows something is wrong but can't do anything about it. There will be many factors involved in the end and a buffet of choices as to which was the final straw that broke the camel's back. But that will be an academic argument because the real issue will be a huge segment of the population not knowing where its next meal is coming from.
National debt isn't anything like personal debt. It can't 'called in' and there is no risk of an involuntary default for the US or other countries that issue debt in their own currency.
The situation is slightly different in the Eurozone. The debt still can't be called in as it's fixed term but there is a possibility of countries defaulting (mainly due to the stupid set up of the ECB).
Any debt can be called on to collect. And inability to pay results in default. The danger is enormous. Its as simple as our creditors refusing to accept US currency due to its devalued state. The dollar would collapse. The only thing keeping it afloat now is the continued belief that it will somehow maintain its value. A task growing more difficult and unlikely with each passing day.
Explain how the US debt can be called in and collected.
The means and methods of default are too numerous to list. However, a debt is a debt and they all have to get paid. This answer at Quora said it well I think.
link
And this from BBC News.
link
The first link regards loans from the IMF which the US does not have.
The second is a commentary piece discussing the potential consequences of default without ever mentioning what would cause a default in the first place.
Neither of which answer the question of how US debt could be 'called in'.
Soverign debt is completely different from personal debt and discussing it in similar terms is pointless or misleading.
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I think in the end it will be not one but a whole fanfare of swans to choose from.
The financial situation we find ourselves in is completely untenable. Our entire economy at this point is nothing more than a giant Ponzi scheme. We have flooded the global market with so much cash trying to keep our economy alive that at some point, when the debt is called in, not just ours but many governments are going to find themselves in hot water. You simply can not solve a credit crisis with more credit. it only delays the inevitable and actually makes it worse.
Right now we are stuck in some kind of Wile E. Coyote moment where we have stepped off the cliff and are just waiting for gravity to notice. Our government keeps printing more cash and piling it up beneath us seemingly without realizing that its the weight of that cash that is going to cause the collapse. To make things even worse, our government shoved billions of dollars at large corporations so the corporations could start R&D and production and put people to work, in turn stimulating the economy. Instead of doing that the corporations just stockpiled the cash. Now the corporations have enormous cash reserves with little to no tangible value attached to it. The perfect storm is brewing.
The moment of insolvency will be when the debt is called in. It is impossible to pay. Not difficult, impossible. Its just a matter of time until we find ourselves in a Wiemar, Germany situation. We will go to bed one night with $10,000 dollars in the bank and wake up with $1,000 Patriot dollars or America bucks or whatever they will be called. It is the only way to avoid the 'wheelbarrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread' scenario.
In the 1930's only one in four Americans lived in a family where someone had a job. From the high of 1929 to the mid thirties the stock market lost 90% of its value. All of the markers that were present in 1929 are here now, only worse. The average American today knows something is wrong but can't do anything about it. There will be many factors involved in the end and a buffet of choices as to which was the final straw that broke the camel's back. But that will be an academic argument because the real issue will be a huge segment of the population not knowing where its next meal is coming from.
National debt isn't anything like personal debt. It can't 'called in' and there is no risk of an involuntary default for the US or other countries that issue debt in their own currency.
The situation is slightly different in the Eurozone. The debt still can't be called in as it's fixed term but there is a possibility of countries defaulting (mainly due to the stupid set up of the ECB).
Any debt can be called on to collect. And inability to pay results in default. The danger is enormous. Its as simple as our creditors refusing to accept US currency due to its devalued state. The dollar would collapse. The only thing keeping it afloat now is the continued belief that it will somehow maintain its value. A task growing more difficult and unlikely with each passing day.
Explain how the US debt can be called in and collected.
The means and methods of default are too numerous to list. However, a debt is a debt and they all have to get paid. This answer at Quora said it well I think.
link
And this from BBC News.
link
The first link regards loans from the IMF which the US does not have.
The second is a commentary piece discussing the potential consequences of default without ever mentioning what would cause a default in the first place.
Neither of which answer the question of how US debt could be 'called in'.
Soverign debt is completely different from personal debt and discussing it in similar terms is pointless or misleading.
The United States lost its top-tier AAA credit rating from Standard & Poor’s on Friday in an unprecedented blow to the world’s largest economy in the wake of a political battle that took the country to the brink of default.
The move reflects the deterioration in the global economic standing of the United States, which has had a AAA credit rating from S&P since 1941, and it could have implications for the U.S. dollar’s reserve currency status.
S&P’s move is also likely to concern foreign creditors especially China, which holds more than $1 trillion of U.S. debt. Beijing has repeatedly urged Washington to protect its U.S. dollar investments by addressing its budget problems. “China will be forced to consider other investments for its reserves. U.S. Treasuries aren’t as safe anymore,” said Li Jie, a director at the reserves research institute at the Central University of Finance and Economics.
originally posted by: EA006
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I think in the end it will be not one but a whole fanfare of swans to choose from.
The financial situation we find ourselves in is completely untenable. Our entire economy at this point is nothing more than a giant Ponzi scheme. We have flooded the global market with so much cash trying to keep our economy alive that at some point, when the debt is called in, not just ours but many governments are going to find themselves in hot water. You simply can not solve a credit crisis with more credit. it only delays the inevitable and actually makes it worse.
Right now we are stuck in some kind of Wile E. Coyote moment where we have stepped off the cliff and are just waiting for gravity to notice. Our government keeps printing more cash and piling it up beneath us seemingly without realizing that its the weight of that cash that is going to cause the collapse. To make things even worse, our government shoved billions of dollars at large corporations so the corporations could start R&D and production and put people to work, in turn stimulating the economy. Instead of doing that the corporations just stockpiled the cash. Now the corporations have enormous cash reserves with little to no tangible value attached to it. The perfect storm is brewing.
The moment of insolvency will be when the debt is called in. It is impossible to pay. Not difficult, impossible. Its just a matter of time until we find ourselves in a Wiemar, Germany situation. We will go to bed one night with $10,000 dollars in the bank and wake up with $1,000 Patriot dollars or America bucks or whatever they will be called. It is the only way to avoid the 'wheelbarrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread' scenario.
In the 1930's only one in four Americans lived in a family where someone had a job. From the high of 1929 to the mid thirties the stock market lost 90% of its value. All of the markers that were present in 1929 are here now, only worse. The average American today knows something is wrong but can't do anything about it. There will be many factors involved in the end and a buffet of choices as to which was the final straw that broke the camel's back. But that will be an academic argument because the real issue will be a huge segment of the population not knowing where its next meal is coming from.
National debt isn't anything like personal debt. It can't 'called in' and there is no risk of an involuntary default for the US or other countries that issue debt in their own currency.
The situation is slightly different in the Eurozone. The debt still can't be called in as it's fixed term but there is a possibility of countries defaulting (mainly due to the stupid set up of the ECB).
Any debt can be called on to collect. And inability to pay results in default. The danger is enormous. Its as simple as our creditors refusing to accept US currency due to its devalued state. The dollar would collapse. The only thing keeping it afloat now is the continued belief that it will somehow maintain its value. A task growing more difficult and unlikely with each passing day.
Explain how the US debt can be called in and collected.
The means and methods of default are too numerous to list. However, a debt is a debt and they all have to get paid. This answer at Quora said it well I think.
link
And this from BBC News.
link
The first link regards loans from the IMF which the US does not have.
The second is a commentary piece discussing the potential consequences of default without ever mentioning what would cause a default in the first place.
Neither of which answer the question of how US debt could be 'called in'.
Soverign debt is completely different from personal debt and discussing it in similar terms is pointless or misleading.
It was misleading a bit...
If the u.s doesn't pay its debt, bond holders lose out? Is that it?
August 28, 2014 Argentina moved into effective default on Wednesday 20 July after failing to reach an agreement over outstanding debt. It is now playing the blame game with the US and threatening to take the matter to The Hague. The country defaulted on its sovereign debt, after vulture fund investors demanded a full payout of bonds they’re owed.
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: ScepticScot
You make some good points.
I do disagree, however, on economic growth. The economy is slowing and it will eventually stop growing altogether. It has to. And the culprit behind it will be energy. Rising energy costs are driving prices up across the board. Food travels an average of 1500 miles before it lands on our plates. That energy cost is increasing and as a result so are the food costs. Incomes are not increasing nearly as quickly and in recent years have been largely stagnant. High paying jobs are being lost and the largest employment growth segment is at or near minimum wage.
As these trends continue more and more of our personal income will be directed to basic necessities. For many the cost of basic necessities is already more than their incomes can bear forcing a greater reliance on assistance. Discretionary spending is decreasing rapidly at most income levels except the highest, of course. That equates to businesses closing and lost jobs. That is the trend we have to avoid to keep the economy growing, but I do not see it happening. Capitalism depends on the idea that there will be more tomorrow than there was today. That can not last indefinitely.