RE: North Korea. Why doesn't the Trump admin offer Kim a carrot while waving the stick?

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

I understand what you are saying - but how in the world do you go about doing that?

I mean if you say, we will give you 50 billion dollars to shut down your nuke program, all it does is encourage them to take the money, shut it down for a year and start it up again and ask for more money. Basically it is the principle you can't negotiate with a terrorist.

You have to understand the mentality of that regime - they don't care about their citizens at all - the only way they would care about them is if they were to rise up against them. If they die from starvation it means nothing to them.

The nuke program they see as the ultimate job security, I really don't think anything will convince them to willingly give it up.

Basically I think that is our main goal with the sanctions, try and get the people to rise up against the regime. It probably won't work fast enough to stop them from getting fully capable nuclear ballistic missiles than can hit the mainland US - but it will probably cost a lot less lives then starting a war with them.

The carrot and stick analogy is not applicable.

In order to offer a carrot (prize) there needs to be a donkey(North Korea).

There is no donkey.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Besides, would you take something small, orange, crooked, and withered looking from Donald Trump?

Trump possesses the monkey's paw?!

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Maybe it just goes without saying that when he denuclearizes, sanctions will be lifted..

This is precisely correct. Everyone knows why we're sanctioning North Korea. We tried lifting some sanctions in exchange for them pledging to halt their program, and they reneged on it, so this time I would imagine they're going to have to dismantle the program before the sanctions get lifted.

originally posted by: carewemust
North Korea eats the carrots and shows their gratitude by threatening the world. Over and over again for decades.

Obviously, they wouldn't get the carrot until a deal is made, but it should be at least described and it's shape outlined.

This would also put a great deal of internal upward pressure on the Kim regime to make a deal, or else...

At the UN, instead of threatening to destroy the whole country, which only played into Kim's hands and propaganda, Trump should have bypassed the NK leader and spoken directly to the North Korean people and everyone that surrounds the dictator.

I'm beginning to suspect that the authorities, Trump included, just aren't very bright.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: carewemust
North Korea eats the carrots and shows their gratitude by threatening the world. Over and over again for decades.

Obviously, they wouldn't get the carrot until a deal is made, but it should be at least described and it's shape outlined.

This would also put a great deal of internal upward pressure on the Kim regime to make a deal, or else...

At the UN, instead of threatening to destroy the whole country, which only played into Kim's hands and propaganda, Trump should have bypassed the NK leader and spoken directly to the North Korean people and everyone that surrounds the dictator.

I'm beginning to suspect that the authorities, Trump included, just aren't very bright.

That's been done. The US has made it clear they need to give up their nuclear weapons program and ballistic missile programs. Trump has said it to the press, he's tweeted it, he's told China. THere's no lack of an outline.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: carewemust
North Korea eats the carrots and shows their gratitude by threatening the world. Over and over again for decades.

Obviously, they wouldn't get the carrot until a deal is made, but it should be at least described and it's shape outlined.

This would also put a great deal of internal upward pressure on the Kim regime to make a deal, or else...

At the UN, instead of threatening to destroy the whole country, which only played into Kim's hands and propaganda, Trump should have bypassed the NK leader and spoken directly to the North Korean people and everyone that surrounds the dictator.

I'm beginning to suspect that the authorities, Trump included, just aren't very bright.

Go and talk to some Trump supporters and try and convince them Trump Is dangerous and needs to be removed asap and see how that works out for you. I'm fairly certain the results would be similar to your solution.

Our dear leaders aren't stupid they are moving things along just as planned, it's the people that are stupid for believing what we are sold.

There is nothing they can be offered that matches in thier mind the benefit of having a deliverable nuclear warhead. When Putin said they would be reduced to eating grass before abandoning the program he was probably correct.

They believe only a functional nuclear deterrent will prevent future US regime change and the US believes they cannot be allowed to have it.

This only ends one way.

originally posted by: justwokeup
There is nothing they can be offered that matches in thier mind the benefit of having a deliverable nuclear warhead. When Putin said they would be reduced to eating grass before abandoning the program he was probably correct.

They believe only a functional nuclear deterrent will prevent future US regime change and the US believes they cannot be allowed to have it.

This only ends one way.

Yeah and any credibility we had with promising not to do that if they give up their weapons died with Gaddafi.

#thanksobama

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

"North Korea is sitting on a stockpile of minerals worth trillions"
www.businessinsider.com.au...

Embedded deep beneath the country’s mountainous zones are some 200 varieties of minerals, including gold, iron, copper, zinc, magnesite, limestone, tungsten, and graphite, Quartz reports. Some of these stockpiles are among the largest in the world, and North Korea, a tiny and cash-strapped nation, frequently uses them to bring in additional revenue — no matter the laws against doing so. The total value of these minerals lies somewhere between $US6 trillion and $US10 trillion.

I suppose they also don't have a Rothschild controlled Central Bank either. What little I could find suggested that the central bank is North Korean controlled.

So we have the 2 ingredients necessary for regime change.
Like Iraq they'll push the WMD narrative to rationalize invading another country.

Why am I not surprised?

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

"North Korea is sitting on a stockpile of minerals worth trillions"
www.businessinsider.com.au...

Embedded deep beneath the country’s mountainous zones are some 200 varieties of minerals, including gold, iron, copper, zinc, magnesite, limestone, tungsten, and graphite, Quartz reports. Some of these stockpiles are among the largest in the world, and North Korea, a tiny and cash-strapped nation, frequently uses them to bring in additional revenue — no matter the laws against doing so. The total value of these minerals lies somewhere between $US6 trillion and $US10 trillion.

I suppose they also don't have a Rothschild controlled Central Bank either. What little I could find suggested that the central bank is North Korean controlled.

So we have the 2 ingredients necessary for regime change.
Like Iraq they'll push the WMD narrative to rationalize invading another country.

Why am I not surprised?

Yeah and then like Iraq we can not remove any of the stuff we supposedly invaded for.

You guys really just won't let go of that myth will you? When are they gonna take the oil? The guys who dreamed up that Iraq scheme are getting pretty old.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

If you had watched Trump's speech in South Korea, Trump offered a 'path' out of the current impasse.

Pretty sure Libya was a Clinton/CIA originated catastrophe. I think Obama just didn't give a #.

originally posted by: justwokeup
Pretty sure Libya was a Clinton/CIA originated catastrophe. I think Obama just didn't give a #.

Yeah I know, nothing that went on while he was president was his fault. Can you hear my eyes rolling from there?

originally posted by: face23785

Yeah and any credibility we had with promising not to do that if they give up their weapons died with Gaddafi.

And further reinforced in the Ukraine. If they had kept their nukes ...

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: justwokeup
Pretty sure Libya was a Clinton/CIA originated catastrophe. I think Obama just didn't give a #.

Yeah I know, nothing that went on while he was president was his fault. Can you hear my eyes rolling from there?

It's his fault in as much he was in charge of the incompetent psycho. I think he genuinely didn't care about foreign policy and the lunatics ran the asylum. This is one of the many consequences.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: carewemust
North Korea eats the carrots and shows their gratitude by threatening the world. Over and over again for decades.

Obviously, they wouldn't get the carrot until a deal is made, but it should be at least described and it's shape outlined.

This would also put a great deal of internal upward pressure on the Kim regime to make a deal, or else...

At the UN, instead of threatening to destroy the whole country, which only played into Kim's hands and propaganda, Trump should have bypassed the NK leader and spoken directly to the North Korean people and everyone that surrounds the dictator.

I'm beginning to suspect that the authorities, Trump included, just aren't very bright.

How - it is impossible to talk to the North Korean people - that is the whole problem - many if not most have no idea they are living in a hell hole compared to the rest of the world.

They have no access to the internet, to TV or radio outside of the government controlled US hating stations. They have been brainwashed to believe the US is the most evil country that has ever existed since birth. So knowing a message was coming from the US would cause a majority to assume it is all lies.

Any attempt to talk directly to the people through air drops / radio transmission etc. could be seen as an act of war.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

We have offered NK many many carrots however in the end they ignored the deal and went back to their program. Bush removed N.K. as a state sponsor of terror to get them back to the negotiating table. That also has not worked. Clinton did the same thing with food aid and what not and again they ignored their part of the agreement.

Exactly where does one draw the line?

More than 20 years of a failed doctrine towards N.K.

Time to remove the carrot.

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: carewemust
North Korea eats the carrots and shows their gratitude by threatening the world. Over and over again for decades.

Obviously, they wouldn't get the carrot until a deal is made, but it should be at least described and it's shape outlined.

This would also put a great deal of internal upward pressure on the Kim regime to make a deal, or else...

At the UN, instead of threatening to destroy the whole country, which only played into Kim's hands and propaganda, Trump should have bypassed the NK leader and spoken directly to the North Korean people and everyone that surrounds the dictator.

I'm beginning to suspect that the authorities, Trump included, just aren't very bright.

How - it is impossible to talk to the North Korean people - that is the whole problem - many if not most have no idea they are living in a hell hole compared to the rest of the world.

They have no access to the internet, to TV or radio outside of the government controlled US hating stations. They have been brainwashed to believe the US is the most evil country that has ever existed since birth. So knowing a message was coming from the US would cause a majority to assume it is all lies.

Any attempt to talk directly to the people through air drops / radio transmission etc. could be seen as an act of war.

This is indeed a problem. It's been slowly changing in recent years though. There are active smuggling operations to bring outside media across the border. Some of them even have the help of DPRK soldiers. The people there are beginning to wake up.

I doubt that the Trump Administration wants peace with North Korea. All Trump does is sanction, sanction, sanction....even today.

Kim Jong Un does not respond to sanctions or diplomacy. He is bound and determined to perfect his wmd's, including nukes, chemical and bio weapons. In fact, it's been reported that North Korea is near its completion of a ballistic missile submarine:

Kim Jong Un’s regime is pursuing an “aggressive schedule” to construct its first operational ballistic missile submarine, an analysis of satellite images indicated as North Korea scoffs at international condemnation and moves to complete its missile and nuclear program.

The images of Sinpo South Shipyard released on Thursday by 38 North, a project by the U.S.-Korea Institute at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies that specializes in North Korea analysis, suggested there were signs of movement and parts in the area since the start of the year. The shipyard has been notoriously known to be used to build large submarines for North Korea’s army, the analysis stated

Source[/url ]

Then there are reports that Congress and the Administration ignore the EMP threat from North Korea, regardless of the proof this is a valid threat:

There was a report by Paul Bedard of the Washington Examiner detailing the revelations of former U.S. Marine Tommy Waller’s recommendations regarding the EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) threat by North Korea. Waller has staunchly stood in the corner of the EMP Commission, now disbanded through withholding of funding, and currently serves as the Director of Special Projects at the Center for Security Policy. He is urging the President to create a special commission by Executive Order to plan for measures to counteract the threat of an EMP attack.

Waller also said this as reported in the article by Bedard: “The first and foremost thing he [the President] must write is an executive order establishing his own EMP commission in the White House – a task force that draws from the experience of the previous EMP Commission. Massive intelligence failures grossly underestimating North Korea’s long-range missile capabilities, number of nuclear weapons, warhead miniaturization, and proximity to an H-Bomb, the biggest North Korean threat to the U.S. remains unacknowledged – nuclear EMP attack.”

This all comes on the heels of the disbanding of the EMP Commission, a panel of the foremost experts on EMP threat, to include Dr. Graham and Dr. Pry, mentioned in numerous, previous articles.

These experts and others, to include Tommy Waller, have been warning the Administration that North Korea is actively mapping out a plan of attack via EMP against the United States.

These warnings have not only gone unheeded, but as mentioned, the former EMP Commission was the only such organization to address such a threat, and it has been dismantled, although its members did not accept any pay for their expert analyses and recommendations.

[url=http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/congress-administration-ignore-experts-on-north-korean-emp-threat_11202017]Source

So the question remains "why doesn't the Trump Administration offer Kim a carrot stick?" My response is that it does NOT.

The reasons for Trump's reluctance to do something concrete about Kim escapes me. He needs to do a pre-emptive strike on North Korea, starting with (or limiting itself to) Kim's EMP satellites.

He's giving Kim more time to get ready to get us.

Imho that's dereliction of duty.